If Snowden Returns To The US?

[Norm K]

If the NSA didn't do anything wrong they should have nothing to hide, right? Then again, that only applies to the American people ...

[fintstone]

He is clearly guilty of theft, espionage, and flight to avoid prosecution. He might well not be convicted of treason, but there is every chance he would. Per the law:
"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States"

"aid and comfort" is generally accepted to refer to any act that manifests a betrayal of allegiance to the United States, such as furnishing enemies with arms, troops, transportation, shelter, or classified information. If a subversive act has any tendency to weaken the power of the United States to attack or resist its enemies, aid and comfort has been given.

I believe that is the case.

[jyl]

I read back at the time of his initial disclosures that he was charged, in absentia, with espionage counts, with the maximum sentence being life imprisonment. There was no mention of the death penalty. Which surprised me, but upon reflection the US govt was probably trying to avoid giving other countries, which do not have the death penalty, an excuse to shelter Snowden. Of course he went to Russia, which administers the death penalty without even bothering with a conviction.

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by jyl

Of course he went to Russia, which administers the death penalty without even bothering with a conviction.

Kinda like some of the folks here seem willing to do.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by jyl

I read back at the time of his initial disclosures that he was charged, in absentia, with espionage counts, with the maximum sentence being life imprisonment. There was no mention of the death penalty. Which surprised me, but upon reflection the US govt was probably trying to avoid giving other countries, which do not have the death penalty, an excuse to shelter Snowden. Of course he went to Russia, which administers the death penalty without even bothering with a conviction.

He was only charged with 18 U.S.C. 641 Theft of Government Property, 18 U.S.C. 793(d) Unauthorized Communication of National Defense Information, and 18 U.S.C. 798(a)(3) Willful Communication of Classified Intelligence Information to an Unauthorized Person; the two latter charges fall under the Espionage Act for “giving national defense information to someone without a security clearance and revealing classified information about communications intelligence,” That doesn't meant that it could not be more now.

The Simple Fact Is That By Legal Definition Edward Snowden Is a Criminal

[john70t]

Originally Posted by fintstone

He is clearly guilty of theft, espionage, ...

Let's not discount there are more than a 1,000 Edward Snowdens all "stealing" proprietary information and/or communications from all Americans as we speak.

These are private contractors, not bound by these same laws Snowden is accused of breaking.
They are not even the U.S. Government, technically, yet are being allowed the same access level.
-Your company data? Compromised.
-Your medical records? Compromised.
-Your attorney conversations? Compromised.

And all of of it is copied and sent unfiltered to at least one foreign government with zero congressional oversight.
"Espionage" is a good word to describe the NSA-Israel connection. Thx fint.

It is a private government within the government.
Same as the Federal Reserve.
Not bound to accountability to the electorate.

Q). What if the Snowden Incident never happened?
A). Your information would continue being passed around from private contractor to private contractor.
A). Discussion would never reach the open air for public disclosure and oversight.
A). It is a private marketer's wet dream. Nobody would know where the information was sourced from, only that it make their company billions in profit for...cough...certain...stock market shareholders and CEOs.
Whitewater would be a drop in the bucket with this codified into legitimate law.

[john70t]

btw ---> parf

[Rich76_911s]

This thread really shocks me. I'd never have thought so many were completely fine with being under NSA monitoring. Information is power, and I can think of a lot of ways the NSA's database of information could be used that would not benefit a free society.

Ben Franklin said it best:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

If he were brought home I'd like to see him heralded as a hero for exposing the US government illegally obtaining, storing, and analyzing private conversation's of American Citizens.

I think he also deserves to be penalized for exposing international spying techniques. I'd probably be a long way from the bullet camp though.

[shoemakj]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I kind of wonder about this. Snowden surely could have sold info to the highest bidder, or even given it to enemies out of personal conviction. But his motivation was to expose illegal activity by the US gov't. And he did so at huge personal cost to himself, not at all for a promise of wealth or comfort. He's only ever going to face a life of misery now, he knew that beforehand and, yet, he still did it. How is that treasonous? It may be illegal, because it's never legal to divulge classified info. But I don't see how he was trying to give aid and comfort to the enemy.

Treason would probably be hard to prove in court, but I guy can dream, can't he?

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by nota

I wish we had more people like him

and less of those who want to kill him

I think that would be a better way to live free

I agree.

Illegally exposed an illegal program, what sort of trial would that be?

Will the US government put themselves on trial along with Snowden?

Maybe an independent government could hold the trial, Canada?

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by gshase

I honestly believe he deserves a fair trial then hang him high.

No opinion of guilt or innocence implied but...this raises a question not yet discussed here. What if he's NOT found guilty?

The preponderance of criteria from the "shoot-now, ask questions later" crowd are based on assumptions of illegal activity. Not many get the chair (these days) because they're "assumed" guilty. Do you think he wants to come home with an expectation of the death penalty or life in prison? Armies of lawyers around the globe are lined up to take the case. Could there be a reason for that?

So, Snowden returns, get's his day in court and is found not guilty of anything significant and walks free. What then?

Oh, and let's not forget that whole "uphold-the-constitution" thing.

[Rick Lee]

I also wonder how much our gov't. really wants him to come home to face trial. That trial would be a fiasco, depending on which super lawyers he decided to go with, who would beg to take the case pro bono, just for the chance to embarrass the US gov't. All kinds of evidence would have to be suppressed due to revealing sources and methods. While I certainly don't think life if gonna get much better for him, having been acquitted, it would be an interesting case. He'd have all kinds of invitations to go abroad and consult for other countries' intel services or IT security firms. I think the US gov't. is best off by making idle threats to try Snowden so that he stays away, and our gov't. won't exert much pressure on whichever gov't. hosts him next.

[xgjhyj]

I'd like to shoot him in the head, but that probably won't be an option.

[yazhound]

Originally Posted by Rich76_911s

This thread really shocks me. I'd never have thought so many were completely fine with being under NSA monitoring. Information is power, and I can think of a lot of ways the NSA's database of information could be used that would not benefit a free society.

Ben Franklin said it best:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

If he were brought home I'd like to see him heralded as a hero for exposing the US government illegally obtaining, storing, and analyzing private conversation's of American Citizens.

I think he also deserves to be penalized for exposing international spying techniques. I'd probably be a long way from the bullet camp though.

Rich, I posted Ben's quote and was suprised at the response. Go back and check...
but you bet your butt they would scream loudly at any attempt to override the 2nd amendment.... seemingly do not understand the notion of a bit at a time until you notice what's gone

[Shaun @ Tru6]

this is well stated.

Originally Posted by Rich76_911s

This thread really shocks me. I'd never have thought so many were completely fine with being under NSA monitoring. Information is power, and I can think of a lot of ways the NSA's database of information could be used that would not benefit a free society.

Ben Franklin said it best:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

If he were brought home I'd like to see him heralded as a hero for exposing the US government illegally obtaining, storing, and analyzing private conversation's of American Citizens.

I think he also deserves to be penalized for exposing international spying techniques. I'd probably be a long way from the bullet camp though.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by nota

I wish we had more people like him

and less of those who want to kill him

I think that would be a better way to live free

Well, that makes two of us.

[Geary]

What I find amazing is that of the tens of thousands in similar jobs, only one man's conscience led him to shine a light on what he felt was a crime against you & I.

[fintstone]

Because there really was no wrongdoing despite the claims here. There was no institutional disregard of the Constitution, etc. In fact, much more obvious disregard us shown daily by rewriting laws with Presidential memos and full disregard for enforcement of existing laws.

Imagine if anyone who disagreed with US policy (who also swore not to divulge classified) were to do the same as Snowden.

BTW, the Second Amendment is actually in the Constitution...

[gordner]

So is the 4th ammendment, and the NSA roaming around your computer files is most certainly unlawful search.....

Stuns me so many are ok with this....I disagree with Snowden's methods absolutely, but in the end his intentions were not to harm the US but to wake up the populace to their Orwillian reality...

[gacook]

If that was truly his intention, there are legal channels to do just that. He chose to pursue illegal means, for whatever reason, which makes me think his motive was slightly less altruistic than some would like us to believe.