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-   -   Are we not talking about the way cool new Tesla lorry and Roadster? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/977894-we-not-talking-about-way-cool-new-tesla-lorry-roadster.html)

Por_sha911 04-02-2018 06:15 PM

Prediction: History will repeat itself and Musk will become desperate and follow in the footsteps of Delorean by smuggling drugs to keep the company afloat.

legion 04-13-2018 05:12 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/12/tesla-media-strategy-discrimination-car-crash

Quote:

Tesla had a clear message to DeWitt Lambert, a black employee alleging racial discrimination: take our money and stay quiet.

“In terms of settlement, we are willing to pay Mr. Lambert [redacted], but only if we are to resolve this matter before there is media attention, preferably within the next few hours,” the Tesla general counsel, Todd Maron, wrote to the worker’s lawyers last year. “If there is media attention first, there will be no deal.”

The message, which a lawyer shared with the Guardian this week, provides a stark illustration of what some say is Tesla’s aggressive legal and media strategy in the face of serious complaints and potential negative press. The controversial PR tactics of Elon Musk’s car company have been on full display this week as the corporation has worked to publicly blame the victim of a fatal crash involving its autonomous technology.

In the three weeks since the death of Walter Huang, 38, whose Tesla Model X crashed while in Autopilot mode in California, the company has repeatedly argued that the victim was at fault, not its nascent technology, and it has openly feuded with US investigators about the release of information.

The defensive statements amid the current tragedy and the settlement offer in Lambert’s labor dispute provide a window into the way Musk’s firm has tried to silence critics – or publicly attack them. It’s a familiar approach in Silicon Valley, where companies work to block bad publicity by keeping complaints out of court and resolving high-profile disputes behind closed doors.

But some say the tactics are particularly intense at Tesla, a firm that often receives fawning coverage from the tech press surrounding Musk’s ambitious projects and celebrity status.

Lambert, an electrician hired as a production associate in 2015, alleged in a harassment, retaliation and discrimination lawsuit that he was subject to “repeated racist epithets for months”, including “violent” rhetoric and attacks using the N-word. Last year, Tesla emphatically denied the claims in lengthy statements that sought to cast doubts on Lambert’s character and alleged that his lawyer was engaged in a “media blitz in an attempt to create a disingenuous narrative”.

Lambert’s attorney, Larry Organ, who has faced repeated criticisms from Tesla surrounding his civil rights litigation, shared the attorney’s settlement email with the Guardian as an example of the corporation’s efforts to stop bad press and silence workers with complaints.

The March 2017 email from Maron said if Lambert rejected the settlement and spoke out, “we will of course point out all of the facts in the attached document”. The document, according to Organ, attacked Lambert’s character.

Organ further said Tesla had offered to have Musk meet Lambert as part of a settlement.

“Tesla is a big corporation, and they feel like they can bully people,” Organ said in an interview.

“And shut them up with money,” added Navruz Avloni, another attorney representing Lambert.

A Tesla spokesperson did not deny the contents of the email, but alleged that Maron was responding to Organ’s “breathtaking” demand for money and threat to go public with a story.

Organ told the Guardian the offer they discussed was just under $1m: “It seems to me they put a fairly low value on stealing a man’s dignity.”

There are numerous examples of highly combative PR and legal strategies by Tesla in the wake of scandal.

This week, attorneys for Huang’s family alleged that Tesla’s Autopilot feature was “defective” and “likely caused Huang’s death” when the car collided into a median. Tesla, however, said it was Huang’s fault: “The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is if Mr. Huang was not paying attention to the road, despite the car providing multiple warnings to do so.”

Tesla’s statement expressed condolences to the relatives, who gave a television interview about their grief. But the company also said: “The reason that other families are not on TV is because their loved ones are still alive.”

On Thursday, Tesla also went after the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), a US agency that accused the company of improperly releasing information about the crash investigation.

“It’s been clear in our conversations with the NTSB that they’re more concerned with press headlines than actually promoting safety,” Tesla said in a statement announcing it would make an “official complaint to Congress”.

Tesla has previously attacked the media in response to reporting on discrimination claims. After a female engineer shared her allegations of harassment with the Guardian, Tesla issued lengthy statements criticizing the woman and ultimately fired her, accusing her of pursuing a “miscarriage of justice”. Tesla has also vehemently denied her underlying claims. Musk has also been personally defensive about claims that his factory is unsafe for workers.

After the first fatal crash involving Autopilot in 2016 – when Tesla’s technology did not prevent a car from colliding with a large white truck – the company defended its product.

The family of that victim, Joshua Brown, eventually released a statement that said “Joshua loved his Tesla” and that the car was not at fault. Paul Grieco, an attorney for Brown family, said this week he couldn’t comment on whether Tesla paid money or had relatives sign any kind of confidentiality agreement. Tesla also declined to comment.

“The parties were able to resolve their disputes amicably,” Grieco said, later adding: “I cannot comment on any of the settlement terms.”

cairns 04-13-2018 10:01 AM

He pissed off the NTSB too. This guy's arrogance is catching up with him. It's the most shorted stock on Wall Street.

onewhippedpuppy 04-13-2018 10:04 AM

Is anyone surprised by that? Tesla, the company, is all about hype. They make low quality cars at a lower rate than promised, introduce products late and often lacking features, make bold claims that independent testers are rarely able to duplicate, and lose money doing so. They are smoke and mirrors, of course they will do everything possible to maintain the image that has propped them up since day one.

mikehinton 04-13-2018 10:20 AM

The only people who act surprised are either fanboys, or those that have been living in a cave for the past several years.

McLovin 04-13-2018 11:49 AM

It will be very interesting to see what happens to Tesla, and how long it takes to happen.

Are they going to be deemed Too Big To Fail and be propped up for many many more years?

Or will the Govt pull the plug (pun intended)?

And if/when (I think when) they do go down, the post mortem is going to reveal an incredible story.

onewhippedpuppy 04-13-2018 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McLovin (Post 10000425)
It will be very interesting to see what happens to Tesla, and how long it takes to happen.

Are they going to be deemed Too Big To Fail and be propped up for many many more years?

Or will the Govt pull the plug (pun intended)?

And if/when (I think when) they do go down, the post mortem is going to reveal an incredible story.

I don't see the current administration propping up what is essentially a "green" company that has been funded by subsidies since inception.

Shaun @ Tru6 04-13-2018 01:48 PM

I've seen 5 of those new smaller cars driving around here.

sc_rufctr 04-16-2018 09:37 AM

This guy is interesting. He's built a working Tesla from salvaged parts> He likes the cars but isn't a fan boy.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BCrm7u_pIyk" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Holger 04-17-2018 01:02 AM

Tesla stopped production of Model 3.
Employees have to take 4-5 days vacation or unpaid stay at home.

onewhippedpuppy 04-17-2018 05:15 AM

I think everyone with an ounce of common sense believed that the development timeline and production ramp-up of the Model 3 was a total pipe dream. Thus far they have delivered very few of the cars, which supposedly have been very low quality, and have not been able to scale production volume anywhere close to promised.

cairns 04-17-2018 05:27 AM

That boy's ego is hurting people.

Quote:

Inside Tesla’s electric car factory, giant red robots—some named for X-Men characters—heave car parts in the air, while workers wearing black toil on aluminum car bodies. Forklifts and tuggers zip by on gray-painted floors, differentiated from pedestrian walkways by another shade of gray.

There’s one color, though, that some of Tesla’s former safety experts wanted to see more of: yellow—the traditional hue of caution used to mark hazards.

Concerned about bone-crunching collisions and the lack of clearly marked pedestrian lanes at the Fremont, California, plant, the general assembly line’s then-lead safety professional went to her boss, who she said told her, “Elon does not like the color yellow."
https://www.thedailybeast.com/tesla-says-its-factory-is-safer-but-it-left-injuries-off-the-books

So the answer is no; we're not talking about the "about the way cool new Tesla lorry and Roadster". Only a moronic die hard Musketeer could still be impressed with his bull sh it.

svandamme 04-17-2018 05:35 AM

That does not look like a modern car assembly place to me..

https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/...-hero-2_mhc8pz

legion 04-17-2018 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holger (Post 10004687)
Tesla stopped production of Model 3.
Employees have to take 4-5 days vacation or unpaid stay at home.

I almost posted an article about this last night. Tesla says the production stoppage was "planned", but it sounds like no line employees or anyone outside of Tesla knew about it.

We have a car factory here in town. It used to be owned by Mitsubishi and is now owned by Rivian (which is an electric car startup that hasn't actually produced anything yet). I know lots of people that worked at the factory when it was Mitsubishi. In general, the factory was shut down for two weeks over Christmas and New Year's (mostly because so many people wanted to take off it was hard to keep production up), and a week over the summer for cleaning. Every 2-3 years they would shut down for multiple weeks to retool for a new model. All shutdowns were planned out at the beginning of the year and everyone who worked there knew when they would be. There were no surprises. Edit: There were some long shut downs some years when cars weren't selling and piling up on the lot outside the factory, but everyone saw those coming a mile away, and they were announced months in advance. Even when the factory closed, no one was surprised.

Tesla has had two weeklong shutdowns in as many months, and it appears they were called for at the last minute. This is not normal in the auto industry. To me, this means that they are chasing down major production issues and trying different things to solve them--apparently without luck.

cairns 04-17-2018 05:50 AM

Being forced to take vacation or unpaid leave at the last minute is not the way to improve employee morale.

Holger 04-17-2018 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svandamme (Post 10004856)
That does not look like a modern car assembly place to me..

That does not look like a regular Tesla-assembly line.

tcar 04-17-2018 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svandamme (Post 10004856)
That does not look like a modern car assembly place to me..]

That is NOT the Tesla assembly line.

Holger 04-17-2018 11:20 PM

Now Musk has increased the goal for output from 5,000 to 6,000 cars per week, until today not reaching 2,000 yet. Any department or vendor having a problem wth that has to give a solid reason and provide a solution. Is this guy completely nuts now?

He does not achive the primary goal of 5,000 cars and now puts the (already high) burden of a higher capacity goal on the vendors and employees. Unacceptable. I hope people run away from Tesla.

astrochex 04-18-2018 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cairns (Post 10004846)
That boy's ego is hurting people.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tesla-says-its-factory-is-safer-but-it-left-injuries-off-the-books

So the answer is no; we're not talking about the "about the way cool new Tesla lorry and Roadster". Only a moronic die hard Musketeer could still be impressed with his bull sh it.

If only half the claims in this article are true, that is some major BS going on at Tesla. Where is OSHA in this?

mreid 04-18-2018 03:58 AM

I’ve toured the Tesla plant, the picture shown earlier in this thread is not the Tesla plant.

My former company financed almost 10% of the consumer auto loans for purchasers of Tesla and I was fortunate enough to get an inside tour in 2016 and a chance to drive a dual engine Model S in ludicrous mode. It was, well, ludicrous. I was also struck by how poor the interion choice of materials and fit and finish were.

Their plant looks very different from any other auto plant I’ve toured (I’ve been in over a dozen plants from stamping to final assembly). Everything is red, gray, black or white, with significant automation and human break areas, vending machines and potted plants mixed in sporadically. The thing that struck me was how much non-value added movement of parts and assemblies takes place. There is a general flow of assembly, but significant inefficiencies. I also think they have expanded their model line up too fast and do not have the room or efficiency of scale to increase production speed. These workforce issues may be their end as the shine tarnishes and the blind love the government has for Tesla fades. For all of these reasons, I removed Tesla from my portfolio. Best of luck to those who didn’t and I hope I’m wrong.

Por_sha911 04-18-2018 07:21 AM

Quick, everyone buy more Tesla stock! Prop up Elon's Ponzi scheme a little longer.

Por_sha911 04-21-2018 03:14 PM

This makes me think of Elon when he was a child.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524352445.jpg

Holger 04-24-2018 04:26 AM

Coming back to the original topic, this is interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ8Cf0vWmxE
I am still not convinced in any way.
Just adding this to the discussion.

legion 05-03-2018 04:45 AM

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/02/tesla-stock-drops-as-elon-musk-gives-bizarre-earnings-call.html

Quote:

Shares in Tesla took a nosedive in after-hours trading today as Elon Musk cut off analysts during a first-quarter earnings call. He dismissed a question about gross margins from Bernstein senior analyst Toni Sacconaghi as "boring." Instead, Musk and other executives answered multiple questions from a Tesla enthusiast and Youtuber named Gali Russell.

The 25-year-old retail investor tweeted at Elon Musk on Monday, seeking to ask him a "crowdsourced" question during Wednesday's conference call. Instead of a single question, Russell was able to ask several.

The stock drop may have become apparent around the time when Musk cut off analysts on the call. However, the company's first-quarter update has also stoked concerns over Tesla's cash burn and how, exactly, it will improve margins while ramping Model 3 production.

On the first-quarter call, CEO Elon Musk also promised a "reorganization" this month. He said:

"I'm feeling quite confident about hitting positive cash flow in Q3. This is not a certainty. It does appear quite likely in my view. We are going to conduct a reorganization, restructuring of the company this month and make sure we are well set up to achieve that goal. In particular the number of third-party companies we're using has gotten out of control. We're going to scrub the barnacles on that front."

In answering questions from Gali Russell, Musk also revealed that Model Y production is not expected to begin for another two years, and that the vehicle won't be produced at Tesla's main, Fremont, Calif. factory.

Musk said, "We will not be starting production of the Model Y at the end of next year. It's probably closer to 24 months from now, 2020... We could not fit the Model Y production at Fremont. We're jammed to the gills here. One thing I know for sure is it's not here."

GH85Carrera 05-05-2018 07:10 PM

Are we not talking about the way cool new Tesla lorry and Roadster?
 
Of course, Porsche and Mercedes along with other manufacturers will have electric or hybrid gas-electric cars available and on the market by then.

red-beard 05-06-2018 02:03 PM

https://electrek.co/2018/05/06/tesla-brutal-review-contractors-firing-vouching-employee/amp/

Por_sha911 05-06-2018 02:21 PM

The Tesla(Ponzi) Scheme is unwinding. Now comes the blame game.

Aurel 05-06-2018 03:52 PM

I have a feeling that Tesla will be a Chinese company pretty soon...

legion 06-01-2018 01:00 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/01/tesla-factory-paint-shop-fires-worse-than-revealed-workers.html

Quote:

Tesla has had at least four fires in the paint shop at its Fremont, California, factory since 2014, according to five people familiar with operations at that plant.

One previously reported fire, in April, was serious enough to stop Model 3 production for multiple shifts that week, these people said. Another fire took place in January 2016 and caused at least a day of suspended vehicle production. Both fires damaged expensive equipment.

These people blamed the fires in part on improper cleaning, maintenance and insufficient training for new employees in the face of high pressure to meet production goals. Two current employees said they were concerned about their health because of fire hazards and poor air quality. All the people agreed that the April fire contributed to slowing down Model 3 production.

A Tesla spokesperson denied that the April fire was "significant" or had any impact on Model 3 production, and said:

"In recent months, we have further enhanced the safety and efficiency of our paint shop, including significant upgrades to equipment, as well as an extensive maintenance effort involving cleaning and calibration. In order to protect the health of our employees, we also conduct regular air monitoring and have proper ventilation and personal protective equipment for everyone who works in the paint shop."

Tesla's future as a mass-market carmaker hinges on efficient, high volume production of the Model 3, the company's lowest-priced offering so far. When Tesla unveiled the Model 3 in 2016, CEO Elon Musk said it would be able to produce 100,000 to 200,000 Model 3 cars by the end of 2017 with a base price of $35,000.

Instead, Tesla produced just 2,685 Model 3s in total for all of 2017.


Tesla also missed its goal of producing 2,500 Model 3s per week by March 31, 2018. So far, the company has sold only premium versions of the Model 3, which cost $44,000 to $78,000.

Paint shop issues are still hampering Tesla's progress with Model 3 production, according to current employees and other people familiar with Tesla's paint shop. They requested anonymity because they have not been authorized to speak to the media.

April fire

When a paint shop fire halted vehicle production around 7 a.m. on April 3, a Tesla spokesperson said the fire was "small" and extinguished by internal teams in a matter of seconds.

But employees told CNBC the fire was significant enough to stop work for at least a full shift on that day. The shop was also shut down for at least one more shift two days later. It also forced Tesla to decommission two burnt sprayer robots that they estimated were worth over $1 million.

The fire happened just after the company's head of vehicle engineering, Doug Field, who is now on leave, sent out an e-mail encouraging employees to "prove the haters wrong." In that spirit, and under management's direction, paint shop crews worked on.

The week of the fire, according to two employees and two other people familiar with Tesla's Fremont factory, Musk showed up to assess damage to the paint shop. The fire had burnt an entire zone dedicated to painting Model 3s.

Rather than suspending operations immediately, Musk and others encouraged teams to fix what they could and push through.

Some Model 3 parts, including B-pillars and chassis components, which had been in the paint shop at the time, were moved into a containment area, visually inspected and put back into production, rather than being scrapped or further tested for damages, employees said.

Tesla emphasized that no damaged parts were used in new vehicle production.

Engineers scrambled to repurpose equipment in the paint shop that week so that robots could be used to put primer on both the interior and exterior surfaces of Model 3 vehicles. Before the fire, separate robots handled interior and exterior primer application.

Tesla handled the April 3 fire with its own internal brigade. It did not report it to the Fremont Fire Department, a spokesperson for the department confirmed.

However, a citizen did call after seeing reports about the fire on social media that day, the fire department spokesperson said. Tesla security greeted a fire department battalion chief who went to investigate and said the department had no internal reports of fire at the facility, the spokesperson said. The chief toured the exterior of the Fremont factory looking for signs of fire, and seeing nothing but a "cloud formation" outside, left without going inside, according to the spokesperson.

A week and a half later, Tesla announced it was shutting down its Fremont factory operations temporarily to make some improvements. (Tesla also shut down its factory for a week in May for planned upgrades.)

Improper maintenance and production pressure reported

Elon Musk tells employees Tesla will streamline management
Here's the memo Elon Musk just sent announcing a major shakeup at Tesla
1:31 PM ET Mon, 14 May 2018 | 00:46

Fires like these are not common in auto manufacturing. It is especially uncommon for a plant to have multiple fires in a paint shop.

According to the most recent available data from the National Fire Protection Association, local fire departments respond to 190 fires per year on average in maintenance or paint shop areas of factories and processing facilities. That is just 4 percent of fires that occur in all of manufacturing.

The rate of paint-shop fires in auto plants is far lower than that, says Jason Reason, a former OSHA officer and senior vice president of safety and health at Lewellyn Technology in Indiana.

"For the most part, corporations know how to control fire hazards associated with spraying operations, and work to establish a safety culture," said Reason. "If you're having multiple fires, you really need to audit your paint shop and make sure it never happens again, even if that means redesigning the whole thing."

A spokesperson for GM manufacturing, Dan Flores, noted: "At GM, we would consider a fire in a paint shop an extremely rare occurrence — that's because our paint shops operate in a very controlled manner."

Two Tesla employees say that vehicle production goals have been the highest priority in recent months, sometimes at the expense of fire and environmental considerations. They said, for example, that months before the April fire, the sprinkler heads were clogged and coated at least an inch thick of paint and clear-coat. Filters below the paint booths and exhaust systems that clean and carry air into and out of the building were also visibly coated, they added.

A former paint shop employee said associates there are given minimal training — just what they need to meet OSHA safety requirements — before they are put to work on jobs that need more specialized skills. The result is that while Tesla has invested in state-of-the-art equipment, these inexperienced employees don't follow best practices. The result: botched jobs and a potentially unsafe environment, according to the former employee, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Workers are hopeful things may soon change. Since early April, Tesla has replaced some sprinkler heads, and put out a request for quotes on new air filtration equipment.

On a tense earnings call in May, Musk plainly acknowledged that the paint shop at Tesla's Fremont factory poses a risk to mass-production of the Model 3 electric sedan.

The CEO said: "General assembly is probably our biggest risk, and I'm refocusing personally on that a lot in the next — in the coming month. And then our paint shop is maybe the second biggest risk after general assembly."

On the same call, he sought to assure analysts "[It's] not like you need brain surgery to get these things right."

island911 06-01-2018 02:56 PM

Damn, I expect that the Hindenburg factory had fewer fires.

legion 06-12-2018 10:39 AM

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/12/tesla-to-cut-about-9-percent-of-jobs-across-company-report.html

Quote:

Tesla told employees it will cut about 9 percent of its workforce, trimming mostly salaried positions.

Tesla currently employs approximately 46,000 workers, which means the reductions will impact about 4,100 jobs.

In mid-May, Tesla CEO Elon Musk had warned there would be a "thorough reorganization" of the company, which has struggled to meet production targets and achieve profitability.

Tesla shares remained 4 percent higher in trading Tuesday afternoon, however ahead of the news the stock had been up as much as 5 percent.

Tesla is trying to reach a Model 3 production rate of 5,000 cars in a single week by the end of June. The electric car maker has struggled to meet its ambitious production targets for the sedan.

Shaun @ Tru6 06-12-2018 04:11 PM

^^^ I'm glad to see it. Companies like Tesla are always over-hiring. Initially it's not so much the cash drain that's the problem, it's too many managers. Managers, in general, are worthless.

cairns 06-12-2018 04:49 PM

And good management, which Tesla so obviously lacks, is priceless. But you're happy to see people lose their jobs- says a lot about you.

Por_sha911 06-12-2018 05:30 PM

Reducing the workforce-well that should help them increase production numbers to reach their claimed goals :rolleyes:
9% is a lot of people. There can't be that many managers. I wonder if Elon is taking a pay cut?
And with all the blatant lies about projected production numbers, bad management and stupidity, people still drink the Kool aid.

island911 06-12-2018 06:29 PM

Are they thinking that this move will be enough to turn a profit on production?

motion 06-12-2018 06:30 PM

Model 3s are everywhere in California. A lot of smart people drinking the koolaid.

island911 06-12-2018 06:33 PM

They are everywhere up here too.

Amazing sales... Deposits... investment...

I suppose that profitability is not needed, as long as a lot of smart people are around to buy.

Por_sha911 06-12-2018 06:51 PM

If live with a traveling rodeo you may think that everyone wears cowboy boots and hats. Unfortunately your opinion is skewed by a very small percentage of the real world.

Holger 06-12-2018 10:56 PM

I wonder what is smart about driving a Tesla (or any EV), besides it is maybe fun driving one.
The ecological/environmental aspect it cannot be ... that would be stupid, not smart. Building an EV is way more damaging to the environment then a gas or diesel is in its whole lifetime.
The only thing is you are moving the pollution outside the cities. Ok, that is good. But smart?

Nevergrowup 06-13-2018 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holger (Post 10071690)
Building an EV is way more damaging to the environment then a gas or diesel is in its whole lifetime.

That's a myth.


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