Another bad experience with Elephant Racing

[jwolfe]

Hey everyone, just figured it’d be worth briefly sharing my experience so others don’t get stuck in the same unfortunate scenario. I’ve seen a few other threads with my exact experience, so buyer beware!

Recently purchased their raised spindle service for my 911sc. It was Bilstein spindles, and 16” wheels so their recommended height it can be raised is 30mm. I went with that suggestion. Got everything installed and the pictures below is the aftermath of my first drive: a-arm making substantial contact with my inner barrel when making turns - contacting so bad, it was literally preventing my car from turning.

Contacted elephant racing and they couldn’t care less about taking any responsibility for this issue. Their customer service consisted of rattling off a bunch of questions in a way that immediately made me feel they were fishing for any excuse or reason to blame me.
And following up with a list of things I either need to do, or buy to work around the issue.

The moral of my story - I would not trust their measurements and instead be cautious and go atleast 5mm less than what’s suggested online. It was such a frustrating and exhausting conversation with them, so much so I will try my best to avoid buying from them in the future.

[Discseven]

J... I just found the same appearance on both my a-arms. Your contact is similar yet different. Yours is on the castle nut. End of my a-arms are chafing against the shield that protects the rotors. I have yet to sort out why that contact exists.

Would you please elaborate on what "raised spindle service" is. Sounds like lowering the car without lowering the suspension but am guessing.
.

[Jonny042]

That's very unfortunate.

There was a thread not long ago with nearly the same warning to would be spindle raisers...

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1099587-psa-anyone-wanting-raised-spindles.html

15mm is the correct and conservative amount for 15" wheels, 19mm is possible but can require some grinding of the lower control arm to provide enough clearance for the wheels.

30mm with 16"wheels is going to be very close indeed.

[stownsen914]

That's a disappointing result, sorry to see this. How did the clearance look during assembly?

[slow&rusty]

A few years ago, when I decided to convert my car to coil overs and refresh every single suspension component I spoke to Elephant and was very dis-satisfied with their customer service and their responses to my questions. To me they felt like a "money grab", then I started reading about a plethora of product issues similar to this thread and not standing behind their products.

I am glad I did not buy any of their products.

[slow&rusty]

A few years ago, when I decided to convert my car to coil overs and refresh every single suspension component I spoke to Elephant and was very dis-satisfied with their customer service and their responses to my questions. To me they felt like a "money grab", then I started reading about a plethora of product issues similar to this thread and not standing behind their products.

I am glad I did not buy any of their products.

I am sorry this happened to you and kudos for sharing and warning other owners.

[gsxrken]

Nothing is a bolt on with these cars (or with vintage mustangs, in my case.) The minute you leave the OEM yellow brick road, you need to do your homework, and in spades.
Should ER put a caveat buyer beware on their website, absolutely.
Thanks for posting your experience; it should help future homework-performers in the future.

[jwolfe]

Originally Posted by Discseven

Would you please elaborate on what "raised spindle service" is. Sounds like lowering the car without lowering the suspension but am guessing.
.

That’s correct, allowing the car to be lowered while retaining full (or close to) range of motion in the shocks for a better ride quality.

Originally Posted by Jonny042

That's very unfortunate.

There was a thread not long ago with nearly the same warning to would be spindle raisers...

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1099587-psa-anyone-wanting-raised-spindles.html

15mm is the correct and conservative amount for 15" wheels, 19mm is possible but can require some grinding of the lower control arm to provide enough clearance for the wheels.

30mm with 16"wheels is going to be very close indeed.

Yea it’s very frustrating Chuck refuses to understand that maybe they need to redo their suggested measurements if this keeps happening. And customers have all different types of wheels and specs, which they also don’t take into consideration.

Originally Posted by stownsen914

That's a disappointing result, sorry to see this. How did the clearance look during assembly?

You don’t get a true idea of the clearance until the car is back on the ground. When the wheel is straight on the ground it has clearance (barely), so I didn’t even consider that once I turn my wheels that gap fluctuates.

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

A few years ago, when I decided to convert my car to coil overs and refresh every single suspension component I spoke to Elephant and was very dis-satisfied with their customer service and their responses to my questions. To me they felt like a "money grab", then I started reading about a plethora of product issues similar to this thread and not standing behind their products.

I am glad I did not buy any of their products.

Yea I honestly think it was my worst customer service experience I’ve ever dealt with. I’ll never recommend them to anyone who asks, which is a shame because the quality of the work I have no issues with. It's the lack of accountability when their services are obviously flawed.

[75 911s]

Originally Posted by gsxrken

Nothing is a bolt on with these cars (or with vintage mustangs, in my case.) The minute you leave the OEM yellow brick road, you need to do your homework, and in spades.
Should ER put a caveat buyer beware on their website, absolutely.
Thanks for posting your experience; it should help future homework-performers in the future.

Well said Ken, I 100% echo this sentiment.

I've had two sets of struts raised by ER. They do what you ask. I did a lot of research and came up with a mere 12mm raise for 15" wheels. It's still very tight. 19mm on 15" absolutely requires spacers or heavy mods to the control arm and castle nut/bottom. I would never even consider that much raise knowing how close 12mm is. And Johnny, can you post pics of your 15mm raise on 15" wheels? Or was that on the car you sold?

For 16" wheel I probably would go 5mm min less than the 30 max. So 25mm raise.

They should have a disclaimer on the web site right in the area of the wheel size and raise recommendations, but I also think custom work on this has to be fully vetted by the builder. A search would have brought up Jack's thread (linked above) talking about this exact issue.

Having read a lot of ER instruction booklets, I remember a disclaimer that says their stuff has to be professionally installed by a certified suspension expert -which none of us do, but perhaps if this was done on a full lift, clearance issues would have been noticed before the wheel got damaged.

What to do now? I would lower the spindle 5mm at least. Have them re-done. Perhaps reach out to ER again and say "look, you guys are having customer issues with how you word this on your site. Can you redo my struts and update your website with a disclaimer that says "this is a custom endeavor and that every application needs to be carefully measured and tested before driving"

I've talked to a few people at ER over the years. They are reasonable. From their perspective, should they pay for someone else's failure to do research and failure to notice an install problem before road testing? Personally I don't think so. Would I still be mad if I were in your shoes? Yes. I've always had mostly excellent service from them. I think their prices are high, but then again, they are a specialty vintage Porsche Parts manufacturer. They aslo ship very fast, they answer the phone and their product is really really well made.

12mm raise on 15" wheels

[phunt]

I also had bad experience at elephant. I han a shell. No suspension of any kind. I was looking to spend like $10000. Customer service sucked. Product is crazy expensive. I will never buy anything from them. Spent $8800 at rebel. But that came with its own crappie service. What is the worst is you seek out help from what are supposed to be the experts. But you get BS and lousy help. Then no help after the fact.

[stownsen914]

For wheel clearance, I'd say ideally it should just clear if they recommended a certain product. But it does depend on wheel brand and offset. I agree with gsxrken's comments - clearance should be checked by the installer.

I'm neutral on ER personally, but this important check should be made clear to buyers ideally.

[jwolfe]

Originally Posted by stownsen914

For wheel clearance, I'd say ideally it should just clear if they recommended a certain product. But it does depend on wheel brand and offset. I agree with gsxrken's comments - clearance should be checked by the installer.

I'm neutral on ER personally, but this important check should be made clear to buyers ideally.

I think the biggest takeaway here is: - If the shape of the wheels inner barrel, or different wheel widths/offsets effect the outcome, elephant racing needs to do better and take that variation into account. They don’t whatsoever.
They didn’t ask me any questions outside of my spindle brand and wheel size (15/16/17).
If further information matters, they should have asked for it PRIOR to my order being placed, not after the fact when issues occur. Seems obvious, yet here we are.

[AG81]

I am a fan of elephant racing's parts. As gsxrken said "nothing is bolt on with these cars", everything needs fine tuning and modifications. The list of parts I have been told will fit is very long. You install only to find there are clearances issues. You then take the parts off, repackage and send them back. It's part of the process.

[john walker's workshop]

It's always been the responsibility of the installer to determine if what is provided will work/fit properly. When you get a crank ground, there's a tag attached that the final check before installation is by the builder. Sorry you had this issue, but you got what you asked for with the strut work and you didn't fully check for fitment before driving. Can't blame Elephant for that. Too many variables.

[Showdown]

If this was some random machine shop adjusting the spindles then I’d say 100% buyer beware but this is elephant racing; purveyor of Porsche car parts.

This is their business and by virtue of being the experts, one could logically assume that they’ve done this service dozens if not hundreds of times and have a bit of insight as to what works and what doesn’t.

I suppose it’s not their responsibility to do the customer’s homework, but to absolve themselves of any advisory role given their expertise is borderline negligent.

What may not be on the customer’s radar might be patently obvious to them and asking questions or offering insights shouldn’t be something omitted.

My few interactions with Richard Clewett (who often answers the phone when you call), have been very enlightening and he’s been very generous asking what/why… and advising accordingly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nickelplated5s]

I have a policy of not giving negative reviews. Generally I ask for permission to give positive ones but I haven't spoken with Chuck in a bit. That said I've only had a positive experience with ER. The best part was him talking my mechanic through the MC for my Boxster conversion. I get my SWB back next week after an ER rear bushing change. The front and Von's were previous. Best guess is shouldn't have been running 7" rims on the front.

[Black 993]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

It's always been the responsibility of the installer to determine if what is provided will work/fit properly. When you get a crank ground, there's a tag attached that the final check before installation is by the builder. Sorry you had this issue, but you got what you asked for with the strut work and you didn't fully check for fitment before driving. Can't blame Elephant for that. Too many variables.

+1

When you modify your car, measure twice and cut once. We've all been there, but I don't see what ER did wrong here, unless you think they didn't raise the spindles to the spec you specified. Put yourself in their shoes -- how are they supposed to account for all the variables and custom setups and differences in each customer's car? Impossible.

[Jeff Alton]

Some seem to have missed that OP used their advice based on his car/wheels. He took their advice, purchased the products and installed them. They tout themselves as experts (which they likely are) and gave poor advice in this case and sold products that did not work. Then said "too bad so sad"...

The OP did not say to them "I want XYZ part for my car".

I understand his frustration. I would think a resolution could easily be found that works for both parties.

Cheers

[Cairo94507]

Sadly, I had the same issue on my car with ER. I asked them to raise the spindles on my struts so they would clear factory Fuchs deep sixes. They told me 19mm would be fine; to be abundantly cautious, I asked them to only raise them 17mm. They raised them 19mm and when installed they hit the inside of the barrels. I caught it before they did damage and called ER. They said they could sell me another set...full price. I have not been back to them since. Very disappointing to be honest.

[Duc Hunter]

I had a conversation with Chuck at ER, and with Clint at Rebel when looking to do the suspension on my RatRod 911. I just had a better feeling about Clint and he did me right. Also randomly talked with Steve Wong at the time about other things, suspension came up, and he echoed what Clint told me almost verbatim. Sucks you had these issues. Hard to validate your issue without driving the car too.