Reseda Dyno Day - Results

[1fastredsc]

Hey dd, although i don't know when i could dyno i am going to install headers, not ssi's, on my sc. That's the advantage to only having winter for 2 months of the year.

[dd74]

Originally posted by TRE Cup
7:31 r/p longevity with a 3.6?
rolling starts, change the gear lube frequently and inspect it, skinny tires- anything to reduce the load on the box

I've got the skinny tires...

[ischmitz]

Originally posted by dd74
Ingo: so in your estimation, how do you preserve a 7.31 r/p when attached to a 3.6? Is it just a matter of shifting slower?

And what is the horsepower and torque of your 3.6?

Thanks.

IMHO, it's the quick shifts that'll hurt any 915 box. The synchro mechanism is just not up to the task of quickly transferring the power needed to match rotational speeds of both shafts. As a result it'll eat at the dog teeth and operating sleeve when you jam it into gears. Dave has another good point. My setup is by no means a drag racer. I ususally keep it down in 1st.

I have not had mine on a dyno yet but I would expect similar numbers to Jack's car since:
- I run the same engine type and chip
- I run 993 headers with high-flow mufflers (free flowing)
- I smoke MikeZ's car since his is a little heavier

It would be very instersting to have all the 964's with the same chip but different exhaust setups on a dyno the same day. We currently have B&B (Jack), headers/supertraps(Mike) and 993HE/glasspack (me).

I belive they'll all be very similar powerwise. On a dyno it comes down to gearing. On the road in a straight line performance it'll be tires and weight. On the track Jack's car in a whole different story for all the suspension he has and his track experience....

ingo

[Joe Bob]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
The most usefull aspect of the day is the comparison between the 3 different setups. As I have posted before comparison #s from different dynos on different days w/ different normalizing routines are IMHO almost useless. Here you can compare back to back runs which will show the comparative strengths of the different engine/ chassis combos and the relative ability of the chip to add hp, Though it is troubling to see that different gears were used(perhaps i misread that part?), the mathematical renormalization of the results obtained in different gears w/ different tire heights is one of the many possible sources of error. It would have been nice if the scale of the different runs was the same so that a visual comparison of the 3.6 vs the others was possible.

I am certainly looking forward to trying one of Z/S or is it S/Z chips myself. Nice job guys!

Just ask....

We never made any HP claims...we wanted to see what "others" found first....thanks to Jack. We will not make ANY claims. If you don't like it send it back....

[Joe Bob]

The opening of the BBRII video has a sound clip of my 3.6 with dual supertrapps, headers and the chip.....Surflvr should be able to send that to you....

[mjshira]

surflvr, can you send it? :-)

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by ischmitz
Can you post that article here. I would be intersted what the issues where...

I could see where it is more difficult to retune the VRAM intake when you change other components (airfilter, exhaust) to continue to get its benefits. All you can tweak with simple means are the switching points on the RPM scale. If you need to change chamber volumes it's a hole different story beyond the scope of most people.

Overall I would assume a volumetric effect of greater 1 will put more air into your engine and thus make more power when properly matched with fuel amount and timing.

Ingo

I checked when I got home. It is issue #114 (no month is specified on the cover but if you open it says Sept 2003). Ninemeister replaces the VRam with 964 plastic intake because he believes "in practice it restricts breathing of of the engine at higher revs"
Hi also uses the 964 heat exchangers and pre-964 cam sprockets. Claimed horsepower is 305hp and 282 ft/lb.
-Chris

[Bill Verburg]

The vram in and of itself does not add much hp. It does allow the torque peak to be spread over a wider rev band.

For ultimate power, albeit over a narrow band, , the plastic manifolds are second best to individualy throttled manifolds like the factory Cup(Thielert Injection), RSR and TWM intakes. The problem w/ making ultimate power lays more w/ the cams which are limited by the metering mechanism connected to the manifolds.

The vram is a device best suited to a street car for combination street/DE, There are better ways to go for an all out race car.

The 993 cam drive is a unique arrangement which needs to be backdated to use any of the hotter cams.

[CamB]

Ninemeister replaces the VRam with 964 plastic intake because he believes "in practice it restricts breathing of of the engine at higher revs"
Hi also uses the 964 heat exchangers and pre-964 cam sprockets. Claimed horsepower is 305hp and 282 ft/lb.

Go have a look at their site. They don't exactly stop there. I think they junk the whole airflow measuring system and run a MoTeC EFI using Alpha-N (throttle position and RPM) only.

Link to package

Description of what they do

[emcon5]

Originally posted by ZCAT3
One of Stephen Kaspar's cutomers (Stephen runs Imagine Auto and is the PCA 911 National Tech Advisor) told me about this. There is a gentleman in Lousiana who makes a living modifying CIS fuel heads for improved flow - both in terms of even flow to each fuel line and overall fuel volume on full throttle. As you probably know, the general consensus is that that 930 CIS fuel system can only handle about 400 crank HP max. My car is putting out about 475 crank HP and I still have room left for more power (the other guy who had this done is at 450 RWHP on his 930 and is still at about a 12:1 AF ratio at peak power).

I believe he has done SC CIS fuel heads.

You have contact info for this guy?

Thanks,

Tom

[dean]

http://www.imagineauto.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?

[emcon5]

Thanks, but he isn't talking about Imagine Auto, but a "gentleman in Lousiana".

Tom

[ZCAT3]

Hi Tom - Blown is correct - the CIS guy only works through distributors so Stephen at Imagine Auto is who I worked with on this. You can e-mail him at porschephd@imagineauto.com - tell him Bill Bennett mentioned the CIS fuel head rebuild to you and Iam sure he will take it from there. I would be interested ot see what results the SC fuel head gets.

[MotoSook]

When you guys say "fuel head", do you mean the fuel distributor?

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by CamB
Ninemeister replaces the VRam with 964 plastic intake because he believes "in practice it restricts breathing of of the engine at higher revs"
Hi also uses the 964 heat exchangers and pre-964 cam sprockets. Claimed horsepower is 305hp and 282 ft/lb.

Go have a look at their site. They don't exactly stop there. I think they junk the whole airflow measuring system and run a MoTeC EFI using Alpha-N (throttle position and RPM) only.

Link to package

Description of what they do

The 911+P.W. article doesn't mention anything about Motec.
-Chris

[ZCAT3]

Originally posted by Souk
When you guys say "fuel head", do you mean the fuel distributor?

Souk - yes, I mean the fuel distributor. The more I think about this for the SC the more I wonder if it would be somewhat equivalent to chipping a Carrera motor as you would basically be improving and increasing the fuel flow under heavy throttle. On my 930, I was not looking for more power but merely a safer AF ratio for the power I already have. Nonetheless, you can see in the dyno I posted that while my max HP stayed the same, I did gain quite a bit of torque.

[ZCAT3]

Originally posted by Souk
When you guys say "fuel head", do you mean the fuel distributor?

Souk - yes, I mean the fuel distributor. The more I think about this for the SC the more I wonder if it would be somewhat equivalent to chipping a Carrera motor as you would basically be improving and increasing the fuel flow under heavy throttle. On my 930, I was not looking for more power but merely a safer AF ratio for the power I already have. Nonetheless, you can see in the dyno I posted that while my max HP stayed the same, I did gain quite a bit of torque.

[Glasgow 911SC]

I think the Motec article was to do with the tuning of a 964RS rather than the guy that did the engine transplant.

[CamB]

My apologies - you guys are right (and I was thinking of a different article in the same magazine about their 964RS plus). I dug around their site a bit more and found what looks like the article you guys are referring to:

The right article, I was wrong!

[Lorenfb]

As we all should know, ignition and fuel map data stored in Eproms,
flash devices, and microcontrollers used in Porsche Motronic systems
are copyrighted material controlled by Porsche A.G.

Just ask AMD about copyrighted microcode when they were sued by
Intel over 386 and 486 math coprocessors. These guys who sell
performance chips are potentially liable for copyright infringement,
since they all use the basic Porsche microcode and make minor
alterations and resell it as their own code in the performance chips.

It's the same as if someone changed a couple of pages in the "Porsche
911 Carrera" manual by Bentley Publishers and reprinted and sold it
under a different name. In either case, a microcode or a book, it's an
expression of one's work and as such protected by copyright law. As
you may have noticed, performance chip guys don't acknowledge use
of Porsche's copyrighted material in their literature nor on their websites.

But again, may be Porsche has little concern about the copyright abuse,
since they probably look forward to selling a lot of Porsche parts the
result of damaged engines.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2