Was there ever an SC/RS

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by SSCenter
GOT THE FACTORY BOOK.PICKED UP AT RACE DEPT.IN GERMANY .ALL PARTS AND PART NUMBERS AND SPECS.INFO FREE . BOOK NOT FOR SELL.DON MOORE 281 482 9837 TX. HAVE A GOOD DAY.

what does this mean?

[vash]

Originally posted by KobaltBlau
what does this mean?

maybe he has the part numbers for us to duplicate the SCRS?
i dont know.

but back on topic, that car looks sweet!

[masraum]

I think it means you can call the guy here in Houston and he'll give you any specs or part numbers that you want, but he's not selling his book that has that info.

[Yellowbird RS]

here is it:
84 Sc Rs

[SSCenter]

RANDY. YOU ARE CORRECT.THREE SPRING SETS LISTED FOR FRONT AND TWO FOR REAR . IF YOU NEED THE NUMBERS CALL.281 482 9837

[randywebb]

This might be a good thread to use to compile info on the SC/RS, aka SC-RS...

The SC/RS had a Bosch-Kugelfischer plunger injection pump instead of a K-jetronic one.
The compression was raised from 9.8 to 10.3 with forged pistons.
The cams had 12.1mm valve lift on intake and 10.5mm on the exhaust.

With a road legal exhaust the engine put out about 255hp @ 7,000 but only 188lb/ft of torque.

... from, racerdoc911 - the last post in: 911sc Rs!!?

[randywebb]

We've had a long thread on the Carrera Club Sport (CS):
info on 911 Carrera Club Sport (CS)

and of course, many many threads on the various early RS models, S-T, T-R, and R, but not much on the SC-RS, so I thought we might as well.

Some comparison info is given in the Lightwt. Models Comparison Table I put together. Copies are posted on the Rgruppe's web site, and at Thom's web site:
http://www.rennlight.com/light/lightweight911models.html

But there was a lot, lot more to the SC-RS -- more than I can say. The cars had a lot of tricks built in to them.

[randywebb]

The SC/RS weighed 500 lbs. less than SC.

It used thin glass; and had no heat exchangers (a gas heater was added in front).

- Panorama Aug. 1985, p. 9


The 20 cars made were designed to be sold to customers for amteur racing. They used 935 cylinder heads, and the 911 Turbo disc brakes.

Top speed 158 mph.

For Gruppe B, the cars were fitted with Al fenders, front deck lid and doors as well as plastic bumpers and front air dam.

The car weighed 2,115 lbs.

- Adler, Dennis. 2003. Porsche: The Road From Zuffenhausen.
(p. 291)

[Kemo]

Originally posted by Steve@Rennsport
Awesome cars; we had # 19 here in our shop for a few weeks making some improvements.

OK..ill bite

what sort of "improvements" ?

[randywebb]

An edited version of something Anzures wrote on:
84 Sc Rs
and that thread also has some interior pics. {I also mixed in some comments further down on that thread from enfizi & TRE Cup}

In 1983, Porsche produced ia racing version of the 911 SC : the SC/RS. To homologuate it, 20 exemplars had to be produced. 5 went to Rothmans for racing and the 15 others were sold as street versions.

The 911 SC/RS is mainly based on the 930 and particularly on its body and chassis. Indeed, it retains the wide body, the wheels, the tires, the brakes and the suspensions of the 911 turbo. The servobrake wasn't used but the braking power was adjustable between front and rear sets. The street legal car was fitted with slightly larger torsion bars: 22 mm front and 27.5 mm rear (instead of 19 mm and 26 mm respectively).

To lighten the car, the measures used on the RS and RSR models were applied : no rear seats, soundproofing materials nor heating system; thin glass on all glasses, aluminium on body pannels (front and rear lid, doors and front wings), fiberglass front and rear bumpers. The interior was stripped (no clock, thin door panels opened by a simple strip and no electric equipment)and light bucket seats added.

These measures reduced the weight to 980 kg.

The engine was an evolution of the SC 3.0L and retained its dimensions. Nevertheless, the engine received large modifications for racing. The CIS (K-Jetronic) fuel injection was replaced by mechanical injection with the six piston Kugelfisher pump. This differed from the street car Bosch mfit pump in that it was a lot more compact and simpler looking (like a 6 cyl version of a BMW 2002 Tii unit).

The compression ratio was raised from 9.8:1 to 10.3:1 with the utilisation of new forged pistons. New overhead camshafts and valves ensures great revs. As a result, the engine type 930/18 developed 255 hp @ 7,000 rpm and 26 mkg @ 6,500 rpm with the street legal exhaust system. On the street version, the engine received an air pump, like on the 911 SC model to improve emissions.

Later in the engine department there were a row of SC-RS motors with high butterfly throttle bodies attached to metal tube conversion stacks to accept a street air cleaner. Which interestingly had the snorkle at the flywheel end with a little intake muffler- (was this for Euro noise restrictions?) The normal end had a smooth cover that screwed on in the usual manner. The exhaust headers were pure RSR.

The oil cooler of the 911, positionned in the front right wing was enlarged and placed in the front spoiler. The gearbox was a type 915 ane received an additional oil cooler (as on the Carrera 3.2) to support the large torque developped by the engine. The gearbox ratios were different than standard ones, and come as specified in the following table:

Gear Ratio
1st 3.18:1
2nd 2.00:1
3rd 1.38:1
4th 1.08:1
5th 0.89:1

The SC/RS is also fitted with a 40% locking factor anti-slip differential and a reinforced clutch. On the road, even in street version, the car is very performant : until 160 kph, it accelerates faster than a 300 hp 911 turbo ! But high speed is lower than on the Carrera 3.2, due to drag from the wide body and the shorter gear ratios. Here are the measures obtained by Auto, Motor und Sport, compared with the 1983 911 turbo :

911 SC/RS 911 turbo 3.3
0-100 kph 5"0 s 5"2 s
0-160 kph 11"7 s 11"8 s
standing kilometer 24"7 s 24"0 s
top speed 244 kph 260 kph


Some info about racing with the SC/RS:
In the early eighties, Rothmans sponsored Porsche's racing programs, especially in endurance races. And in 1983, a rallycar would carry Rothmans colors : the 911 SC/RS. In this time, rallying was a technological race without limits: the Group B rallycars used rare materials and great engineering to produce 500 hp.

The performances of these famous cars were absolutely astonishing as were their prices. Lancia 037, Peugeot 205 Turbo 16, Audi Quattro, Toyota Celica Turbo...Very high performance cars and not a Porsche to fight against. The Group B at Porsche was planned for 1983 with engagement in rally in 1985. So there wasn't any rally programm. At that time, Rothmans was engaged with Opel but results were late to come and as relations were good between the cigarette manufacturer and Porsche, they asked the factory to produce a rallycar for the 1984 season. The program was clear : European Championship because a 911 was still competitive in this kind of races.

In fact, in some races, the 911 was still competitive provided a good driver was at the wheel. In the last three years, private clients won great victories like the Tour de Corse (1981 - Thérier and Vial) and even the European drivers Championship (1981 - Zanini), the swiss championship (1983 - Ferreux) and the belgian championship (1983 - Snyers), all on 911 SC. So Porsche began to produce what would be known as 911 SC/RS. It was homologuated as an evolution of the 911 SC model and 20 have been produced, 5 of which for Rothmans; the other ones have been sold as street version for DM 188,100. The Carrera 3.2 wasn't retained as a base for the rally car because its larger engine put it in the upper class of cubic capacity, heavier. For the scope of the modifications, check the street version document but the racing version was again improved.

From the beginning, to improve the behaviour of the car and its capacity of reception after jumps, Porsche planned to install helicoidal coil springs. Unfortunately, as the 911 SC wasn't fitted with such equipment, Porsche had to wait 1985 to homologuate it. So, for the 1984 season, the car received larger torsion bars : 22 mm front and 27.5 mm rear (instead of 19 mm and 26 mm respectively).

The 911 also receive high performances racing shock absorbers and a reinforced engine cross bar. The cockpit is equiped with an aluminium roll cage. If the street legal version is fitted with a 8:31 final drive ratio, two shorter (8:35 and 7:37) were homologuated on the racing version. The transmission is also improved by the utilisation of a competition disc clutch. As an end, the exhaust system is a "Rallye" model which is optimized for the engine settings. It allows the SC/RS to provide 280 hp @ 7,000 rpm and 29.6 mkg @ 5,500 rpm with no less than 26 mkg between 3,500 and 7 ,500 rpm. Porsche produced the car, Rothmans sponsorized it and the DRA team (future Prodrive) used to engage it on tracks.

The car would run for the European Championship but also in the Middle East one with Saeed Al Harji. In Europe, Rothmans engaged a great driver who already had driven for Rothmans with opel. The problem is that this pilot was so great that even Lancia engaged it for the World Championship on the fabulous Lancia 037. But Henri Toivonen was ready to drive both cars. The first part of the Championship was a little bit disapointing for the team as the car showed little wickness but it was very performant on dry tracks. The first victory came in Sardaigne at the middle of the season, followed by victory in Belgium and on the "Milles pistes" rally, in the south of France. Some other great places allowed the team to win the European Championship but some problems with Toivonen lead to a second place overall, which is a great result.

After this episode, Toivonen was fired. On the races, the 911 SC/RS is a very agile car with great motricity, on every fields. It is due to the weight distribution, more pronounced on the rear that the production 911s. It was a great advantage during the season. In the Middle East Championship, where sand and rocks are roads, Al Harji and the 911 were the best with a lot of victories and won the Championship.

For 1985, the car received reinforced chassis and transmission and improved oil ducts. The program was the same as before with two new pilots for the European Championship : Bill Coleman and Bernard Beguin. The races were hard, competiting with the Group B cars. But the SC/RS obtained great places like third and fourth in the Rallye of Corsica, vicory in Ireland and second places in the "Tour de France" and in Alsace. But concurrence was rude and with the disparition of the Group B cars (fatal accident of Toivonen on Lancia), the racing 959 project was given up. As a result, Porsche and Rothmans stopped rallying to concentrate their minds to the sport prototypes championship. Until 1987, the 911 SC/RS obtained great results in the Middle East but then ... the 911 was obsolete facing the new 4WD rally cars. The end of an area.

[YTNUKLR]

Does that torque specification seem a little low to anyone else? Only 188 lb-ft out of a race 3.0 liter??

[rs6er]

I saw one of the street versions of this car at the PCA Zoine 1 Concours in White Plains, NY some 20+ years ago. Sweet!

[randywebb]

Steve Weiner commented on thread:
what do you know about the 1984 911SC/RS
as did someone who pointed out that the Bosch mfi pumps were apparently NLA by then:

The only crappy part of car [#19 {which they worked on} was] the horrible Kugelfischer MFI pump. As they have no space cam, they really only run well at WOT and do not idle long without plug fouling, even with MSD's.

The chassis is very unusual with many little details like suspension droop limiters and fiberglass encased rear trailing arms. All of the shock mounts and A-arms were heavily reinforced. They had combinations of Fuchs & BBS wheels with 930 brakes, too. Fenders, hood, doors were all thin aluminum, no door beams, and thin glass. It weighed 2150 on our scales.

__________________________________
- It sounds like Porsche was thinking of some severe rallye use when they made these cars, even tho they were paved race course cars.

- As usual, Bill V. has pics of everthing Porsche ever made... he posted a few on the avbove thread, and Ernie W. posted some interesting pics form the 954 manual.

[randywebb]

Here is some info Wil Ferch compiled:

from Frere's "Porsche 911 Story"..7th edition, p.293:
"The 18 mm front anti-roll bar is of the early 911 type and the torsion bars of the basic suspension are complemented by additional coil springs, concentric with the Bilstein dampers with screwed abutment for quick ride height adjustment. Pending a change in regulations, the auxiliary springs could not be used in the 1984 season, and front 22mm and rear 27.5 mm thick torsion bars had to be used. "

From the latest three volume "Excellence was Expected" by Ludvigsen, on p. 826-829: " At all four corners the telescopic Bilstein gas-pressurized dampers were encircled by adjustable supplementary coil springs. Braking was courtesy of the 917 by way of the 911 Turbo. "

A couple of more nuggets from both volumes:
- cylinder heads were from the 935
- perhaps 22 ( instead of 20) cars were built.
- rally version had two front oil coolers..one in each fender, it appears.
- road version had the oil cooler under the rear wing instead of behind the right front headlight.
- car was trimmed from normal roadgoing weight of 2600 lbs to 2330 lbs. Rules minimum was 2115, so it's interesting that Porsche *only* got that low.
- they were priced at DM 188,000 or $US 71,666 at that time.
-Rally prep cost DM30,000 extra.
- before production even began, "all 20" ( ?) cars were accounted for by orders...7 from US, 3 from France, 2 each from Germany, UK, Italy, and 1 each from Spain, Lebanon, Belgium and Switzerland. Porsche kept "ten percent of the total production.....in its own collection" ( Ludvigsen).

[Britwrench]

I worked on this car, bought new by the Porsche importer (where I worked) in Bahrain as a road version and converted to rally spec. Ran in the Middle East Challenge and then sold when the company changed plans. Car is still around and was converted back to street spec.

[randywebb]

That white color is very sheik!

[tdatk]

- road version had the oil cooler under the rear wing instead of behind the right front headlight.

I'd like to see that setup........

[donstevens]

I rode in an SC?RS at the first Porsce driver's school I ever attended back in 1986. My instructor (a wealthy guy form West Palm Beach) had one and took me out for a session. I don't remember any details of the car other than it was pretty fricken cool. He sold the car shortly after that and no one knows where it went.

Mechanically injected 3.0 race engines are very common in HSR. As understand it, the current 3 liter MFI is a modiftied version (recalibarted pump for higher few flow for example) of the systems as we have on our early cars. 300HP is definitely possible but as someone stated previously, such an engine only likes WOT.

Don

[Britwrench]

The car in Florida could have been the Bahrain SCRS as that car came to the US at one point.

[TRE Cup]

Peter Kitchak has one of the Rothman's factory cars and we raced against him at Elkhart Lake one year. Here, he shows up with this rally height car with mud flaps and all. At the beginning of the race, he takes the inside line and just left over 1/2 the Porsche field ! very impressed

"Later in the engine department there were a row of SC-RS motors with high butterfly throttle bodies attached to metal tube conversion stacks to accept a street air cleaner. Which interestingly had the snorkle at the flywheel end with a little intake muffler- (was this for Euro noise restrictions?) The normal end had a smooth cover that screwed on in the usual manner. The exhaust headers were pure RSR."<<< yep-= a few of us had gone over in Sept 83 to check out the factory and the frankfurt messe- annual car expo. SOmewhere in my pics i have a couple of shots of these engines on their green pallets.
also got to see one of the cars on the production line where the worker let up pick up the alloy doors- nice and light!

There were a few SCRS (all in white of course) in a separate yard that we could only see from the 2nd floor at werkes 1. "sorry- you are not allowed in this area please" ok- we get it

Werkes 2: how about the jules sponsored 936's just sitting outside in the elements , flat tires, thin plastic tarps?- used up race cars get no respect
They were building the special order slant noses inside the shop there- racks of bare metal no headlamp fenders -the early slants had lamps in front bumper - very weird looking

but i digress