Why or why not a C4?

[Scooter]

Guys, I need pros and cons...let er rip!!!

[AFJuvat]

Off the top of my head:

Pros: go around corners and handle much better

Cons: more maintenance intensive, slightly more difficult to work on
Somewhat slower than a C2

AFJuvat

[jwetering]

pros: nice quiet smooth luxury ride, wife can drive it

cons: heavy, ugly, lame

[ajackson]

From what I have read, the 4wd technology has come a long way. The 946 c4 is much different than a 996 c4. Also, from what I have read, if you live in a mostly dry area or want a track car, get a C2. If you live in a wet/snowy area, a C4 might be a good idea.

[a911]

You wanna 4 wheel drive buy Audi or Subaru. 911 4s are for retired ppl that dont have reflexes as sharp as use to. Just my thought

[Victor]

Ask the same question on the 964 board if you have not already. Then buy the newest 911 Porsche you can afford and you will not regret it.

[beepbeep]

Originally posted by ajackson
From what I have read, the 4wd technology has come a long way. The 946 c4 is much different than a 996 c4.

You are correct, but in the way you might find surprizing.

964 C4 has much more advanced 4WD than 996 C4.

While 996 C4 has just visco-fluid coupling between front and rear axle, 964 C4 has intricate electro-hydraulic system that's loosely based on 959 one.

It was subsequently replaced by cheaper visco-coupling for mainenance and cost reasons.

[alan911sc]

As a C4 owner I find it too easy to drive fast. Having raced formula vee and previously owned a 1983 911SC, I like the "seat of the pants feel". The C4 is very civilized. I bought the C4 when the SC was totaled. I was looking for RWD 964 but couldn't pass up the deal on the C4 Cabrio. I'm now considering trading it for a C2 Coupe of equal value +/- to do DE's without a roll bar since the formula vee has been sold.

[KTL]

Originally posted by Scooter84
Guys, I need pros and cons...let er rip!!!

Depends on which C4.

Like the other guys said, the different C4 cars are not only different in age, but in mechanicals as well.

The first C4 uses a complex (translation: expensive) electrically managed awd system. Sure the 964 C4 is cheaper to buy, but may be much more expensive to maintain in the event of a major service on the AWD system.

The 993 and later cars use a simpler system and I believe it's said to be a bit more transparent than the original 964 C4's operation.

I believe the 993 and later cars also did away with the locking differential? The 964 has a button you can push to lock the rear diff. for better traction (if you're stuck), but I don't think it's used for cruising around. Just use it to get out of the mud, then unlock the diff.?

[project935]

I think the locking CENTER diff on 964s works at 40MPH or less - 50/50 split. Normally 80r/20f I think.

Theoretically, you can yank out the center shaft, front diff, and front CVs and you're now a C2 with some extra control systems on board. Swap in a C2 or manual steering rack and you even better. That's what I would consider doing if faced with a giant $$$ AWD repair bill.

[alan911sc]

Not that easy, abs and pdas systems are independant creates all kinds of chaos. Better off just buying a C2. If it were that easy I would have done it.

[KobaltBlau]

supposedly one of the reasons they got rid of the 964 style C4 drivetrain is to reduce the understeer found in that model, which had greater torque biasing toward the front in a nominal situation than a 993 or 996.

[Scooter]

Interesting thoughts....thanks guys. The C4 in question is a 1990. I have been told the C4 goes through tires very fast. Also, I drove the car yesterday. I took a big curve at a decent speed and found the rear end to be a little loose for my taste. Surprised, as I thought an all wheel drive wouldn't be loose at all. It actually felt like the rear wheel broke its bead and came off the rim! By the way, the tires suck...Kumhos.

[nostatic]

can you throttle steer a C4? Seems it would be tougher than a C2.

[NOH20]

I had a 97C4S and another PCA member has a C2S. I couldn't tell the difference when drivng them both hard.

[Scooter]

Originally posted by nostatic
can you throttle steer a C4? Seems it would be tougher than a C2.

That may have been my problem. I was so used to my Carrera. If I hadn't let off the throttle, I would have swapped ends.

[KTL]

I agree on the more sporting nature of the 993 C4. I don't own one, but the 97 Carrera 4S that I drove didn't feel like your typical all wheel drive car.

Quite easy to make the rear end step out, goofing around at low speeds. Might be a different story at higher speeds. I can say with certainty that the C4S in no way behaves like my AWD Laser- lotsa understeer and difficult to make the rear end step out under hard accel. Tail wagging was not hard to do with the Porsche.

[KobaltBlau]

so I guess what whe really need is reports from people who have driven hard or owned both a 964 C4 and an older 911. Too bad I'm not one of those, so I can't help!

Kumho Ecsta MX are good tires, and Kumho ecsta supra 712s are no pilot sports, but they are very good for their price.

[motion]

I have a 4 and can't even detect that its there. A 993 only puts 5% of the power to the front during normal driving. When the computer detects front wheel slip, it starts to add more.

[alan911sc]

From what I understand the 964C4 is something like 61% rear and 39% front power, thus the understeer. Porsche supposedly designed it that way because of liability. Understeer and you hit the guide rail, your fault "driving too fast". Oversteer and the ass comes around and you hit the guide rail, their fault "bad engineering". Damm lawyers!