Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[HarryD]

On this Thread there is a link to Castrol latest marketing hype on their Syntec 20W-50. See it here.

Too bad, they do not tell us which API Spec is it designed to meet.

[cnavarro]

Here's the link to the product data sheet.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

Here's the link to the product data sheet.

Chuck,

The sheet is dated 7/2007, so the question is... are they hyping a new product or the same product with a new patter.....

[boxster03]

I am using Shell Rotella 15-40 in my 1970 911. It was recommended but I wonder if the new formula still is? This is info from their web site discussing zinc.

Is Shell Rotella T engine oil going to have less zinc in 2007?

Yes. The API CJ-4 (next generation) Shell Rotella T multigrade engine oil will have a slightly lower level of zinc than the current API CI-4 PLUS Shell Rotella T oil. Zinc is typically used as part of the anti-wear system within the oil. However, less zinc in API CJ-4 oils compared with API CI-4 PLUS oils does not mean increased wear. In fact, wear protection is one of the key areas where the API CJ-4 category provides improvements over API CI-4 PLUS. (Other areas include; oxidation stability and soot control). The new API CJ-4 Shell Rotella T multigrade engine oil also meets the requirements of earlier API performance categories such as API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, as well as others, and can be used in engines specifying any of these performance categories.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by boxster03

... In fact, wear protection is one of the key areas where the API CJ-4 category provides improvements over API CI-4 PLUS. (Other areas include; oxidation stability and soot control). The new API CJ-4 Shell Rotella T multigrade engine oil also meets the requirements of earlier API performance categories such as API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, as well as others, and can be used in engines specifying any of these performance categories.

OK, how do they "wear protection is one of the key areas where the API CJ-4 category provides improvements over API CI-4 PLUS. "? They make the statment but do not say how. What else changed? Is it beneficial to older, flat tappet engines?

Right now, this is just marketing hogwash.

[boxster03]

I have enough of the old Rotella formula for one more oil change and then I think I will switch over to Castrol Syntec 20-50 as the Syntec appears to be formulated for older cars requiring more zinc. Its available at Walmart for a good price too. I am assuming Castrol Syntec is dyno oil?? Or is it synthetic?? I will not run synthetic or a blend.

this is from the Castrol web site. Wonder what/where this "R" formula is available?

…to the classic choice
As well as industry-leading products for the latest motor cars, we continue to supply the classic Castrol 'R' grades in some countries. These car motor oils are still in great demand by enthusiasts in many motorcycle sports, classic car and historic car circles - and have been used by manufacturers' teams and private competitors to win countless national, international and world championships over the years.

[scottb]

Thoughts and/or comments on this oil analysis would be appreciated. (It's for a sample of virgin 15w-40. Brand name withheld for the moment.)

Thanks!

Scott

[E-man930]

What do you think about AGIP?
I have a stockpile of this stuff from a motorcycle shop that went under.

[boxster03]

I checked Castrol's web site where they have different country products and it appears there is this classic oil available for example in Germany but not in the US



Castrol CLASSIC OIL XL SAE 20W-50
For pre-1980 modern classic cars

A conventional multigrade engine oil of good all round performance, formulated with high quality mineral oils plus selected additives, ideally suited to older technology and classic car engines.

Here are the specsgiven

SAE 20W-50

Test Method(s) Unit Typical
Density @ 15C, Relative ASTM D4052 0.884
Viscosity, Kinematic 40C ASTM D445 mm²/s 157.71
Viscosity, Kinematic 100C ASTM D445 mm²/s 17.3
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 120
Pour Point ASTM D97 °C -27
Zinc, % wt ASTM D4951 % wt 0.1
Calcium, % wt ASTM D4951 % wt 0.13
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 °C 200
Total Base Number, TBN ASTM D2896 mg KOH/g 5.0

this is a good web site under the Ireland section that discusses a lot of classic car oil issues.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/subsection.do?categoryId=9014105&contentId=7027417

[cnavarro]

I'll point out that Castrol Classic might not have tons of Zn, but look at the Ca and TBN of 5.0. The low detergency allows the remaining Zn and P to do a better job.

Scott, based the uoa, that oil would not be my first choice, but then again Blackstone has gotten things wrong in the past. Nothing is 100% definative unless it's retested and then cross tested at another lab.

[scottb]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

Scott, based the uoa, that oil would not be my first choice, but then again Blackstone has gotten things wrong in the past. Nothing is 100% definative unless it's retested and then cross tested at another lab.

Charles: What, specifically, do you not like about this oil?

Thanks!

[scottb]

Here's the back label for the oil that is the subject of the report I posted above. Comments would be appreciated.

[donstevens]

Originally Posted by scottb

Here's the back label for the oil that is the subject of the report I posted above. Comments would be appreciated.

This obviously says it is a diesel oil. Based on the high Molybdenum number I'd guess it is Schaffers.

Don

[scottb]

According to the manufacturer, it is suitable for gas or diesel engines.

It is not Schaffers.

[cnavarro]

It is Strata Xtreme. I have six gallons of it here, supplied by Lubemaster. The label gives it away. It is manufactured by Certified Labs. It does have an impressive meet or exceed list of specifications.

[scottb]

Bingo!

But what, specifically, don't you like about it?

[cnavarro]

One thing that may be off is the VOA from Blackstone, it just doesn't look right since it's a CI-4 oil. The analysis makes it look like a CJ-4 oil, but without added boron as found in most CJ-4 oils. I plan on running doing some back to back dyno testing late Jan between Swepco and this product, and will do UOAs and VOAs for comparison. I also plan on running it in my 911 next fill for comparison against the previous Brad Penn and Valvoline non-street-legal fills. I plan on sending in a sample to Staveley and running the oil in all courtesy to Lubemaster for sending it to me free of charge, since he has great faith in this product.

[movin]

One of the comments on BITOG site said recent analysis' have shown Brad Penn oil to somewhat dirty and the company should do something to clean up the product. I noticed very minor amounts of minerals and metals in the VOA posted, is that a problem?

[cnavarro]

I have a copy of the Butler VOA that shows the trace of insolubles as do I have similar VOAs for Mobil 1, Motul, and other oils with similar insolubles or particle counts. To say any of these oils are dirty is hogwash. The American Refining Group's refinery, blending and packaging operations are ISO 9001:2000 certified and the Bradford refinery itself was the first in the United States to carry the ISO 9002 certification. If there's one thing for certain, most every quality oil is made in a facility that requires that it's product meet certain requirements and as far as insolubles go, I don't think it's something we have to worry about.

[movin]

Thanks, I thought those very minor amounts wouldn't amount to anything to be concerned about.