![]() |
|
|
|
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Commerce Twp, MI
Posts: 80
|
Thanks to all the great information contained in this thread , I think I am pretty clear on what to use in my 911. But from a older water cooled engine standpoint for vehicles that specify useage of 10W40, how is the new Mobil 1 10W40 or the Mobil 1 5W40 turbo diesel oil? They are both
SL oils (not SM). I know the Swepco could be used in this case but I am asking because these oils are widely available and some of us would rather run synthetic oils if possible. Due to the SL spec, would these oils require any additional additives or would they be acceptable as is? Thanks, Mike
__________________
1985 Carrera 1995 325is 2000 Grand Cherokee |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,911
|
For something that specifically calls for a 10w40, I don't see a problem using the M1 5w40 Truck and Diesel, as long as they leave it alone as it currently stands at an API SL/CI-4 rated oil. I would actually prefer that over the M1 high mileage 10w40 to be perfectly honest.
__________________
Charles Navarro President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service http://www.LNengineering.com Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution |
||
![]() |
|
just me
|
so brad penn oil is the way to go at this point
what about a filter? which is the best to use?
__________________
1975 911s, 3.2l and 915 transmission front oil cooler RUF replica bumper ducktail and SC rear flares SW chip ssi's m&k 2 in 1 out sc front calipers PF 97 pads fuchs 16 x 7 and 8 225/ 245 toyo ra-1s 22/29 torsion bars 25mm Charlie Bars Neatrix bushings lowered and corner balanced DAS bolt in roll bar kirkey seat 5 point harnesses. http://www.hairydoggrrrage.com/ |
||
![]() |
|
just me
|
ok, instead of waiting for brad penn oil to call or write back I went to the main website http://www.amref.com/ got their phone number and gave them a call.
found a shop in suffolk county http://www.sterling-engine-parts.com/ they have 20w50 and they have a case in the store so I'll pick up that tomorrow while I am up there to get my injectors that are being flow tested and cleaned. all I need now is pointers on the best filter I have been using Mahle filters so far are there other options?
__________________
1975 911s, 3.2l and 915 transmission front oil cooler RUF replica bumper ducktail and SC rear flares SW chip ssi's m&k 2 in 1 out sc front calipers PF 97 pads fuchs 16 x 7 and 8 225/ 245 toyo ra-1s 22/29 torsion bars 25mm Charlie Bars Neatrix bushings lowered and corner balanced DAS bolt in roll bar kirkey seat 5 point harnesses. http://www.hairydoggrrrage.com/ |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,911
|
If you can get them, the Mobil 1 oil filters are my favorite, tied with the K&N Gold. I'm also guessing that those filters sold by Amsoil are of equal quality. In a pinch, I used Napa Gold or Wix filters (I have a Wix on my 911 right now).
__________________
Charles Navarro President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service http://www.LNengineering.com Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution |
||
![]() |
|
just me
|
thanks,
I will see what i can find tomorrow. look forward to getting the oil changed and the injectors back in! little by little making progress
__________________
1975 911s, 3.2l and 915 transmission front oil cooler RUF replica bumper ducktail and SC rear flares SW chip ssi's m&k 2 in 1 out sc front calipers PF 97 pads fuchs 16 x 7 and 8 225/ 245 toyo ra-1s 22/29 torsion bars 25mm Charlie Bars Neatrix bushings lowered and corner balanced DAS bolt in roll bar kirkey seat 5 point harnesses. http://www.hairydoggrrrage.com/ |
||
![]() |
|
![]() |
Registered
|
Charles,
You do not mention the Mahle OC54 filter. Is there a relevant reason? Are the ones you named superior in quality, performance or price? Has Mahle degraded their product over recent years, or not kept up with the competition in some fashion? Thanks for all your time on the topic of oil and our air-cooled motors. |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,911
|
I actually thought about mentioning the Mahle and Mann filters - I wouldn't hesitate using either of the two german filters, but I'd say they are about equivalent to the Napa Gold or Wix in design and construction.
__________________
Charles Navarro President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service http://www.LNengineering.com Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution |
||
![]() |
|
durn for'ner
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of Sweden
Posts: 17,090
|
Charles,
I have been following some of yours and Doug Hillary´s discussion on this topic on Rennlist. You seem to have somewhat different views on the subject. Both of you sound eminently knowledgeable, but that only adds to the confusion for us ignorants (me). Care to comment on that reflection here on Pelican ? Thanks!
__________________
Markus Resident Fluffer Carrera '85 |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 7,007
|
Quote:
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I would only offer that everyone has an opinion and they are shaped by each individual specific experiences.
__________________
Steve Weiner Rennsport Systems Portland Oregon (503) 244-0990 porsche@rennsportsystems.com www.rennsportsystems.com |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,911
|
Thank you Steve.
I think it's best to say that Doug and I agree to disagree. I will say that an ACEA A3/B3 API SM or CJ-4 rated oil will *probably* be fine for your Boxster as Doug has stated. If I had a GT2, GT3, or Turbo, I sure as h*ll would not use an SM or CJ-4 oil though, especially M1 0w40. I would try my hardest to find another 'approved' oil. Doug has a well-seasoned relationship with Mobil and its products, even if not employed by them, and many years of experience to rely on. Although I might not have a few decades of experience with lubricants, I do spend every evening with a cup of coffee and my sae journals and try to dig as deeply as I can into this problem to understand all aspects of it. I just got in few dozen more papers that will take me probably months to read and annotate. I also do have a chemical engineer around (my wife), to bounce questions and discuss what I read (if I don't understand it). I believe while Doug might have lots of practical experience he is falling back on, he is no where as versed on published research or as diligent in researching the topic as I have tried to be. Believe it or not, everything is there in black and white - from why they have done what they are doing to what flaws there are with current formulations and what's coming next to help make things better. It just costs a lot of money to keep buying more and more documents, not to mention, time to internalize them all. Good thing I don't watch any TV and my wife doesn't mind me working oil oil stuff nearly every night. I am also trying to take notes and publish them, as I read these papers the second time around, sans commentary from myself. The facts can stand on their own, regardless of whether the proof should say that CJ-4 oils are superior or SM or ILSAC GF-4 oils are insufficient. I really do wish all these publications were free to read on the Internet. It's one thing reading what someone says and reading it for yourself.
__________________
Charles Navarro President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service http://www.LNengineering.com Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution Last edited by cnavarro; 12-13-2007 at 01:05 PM.. |
||
![]() |
|
Tree-Hugging Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,676
|
Quote:
Jim
__________________
~~~~~ Politicians should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their owners. ~~~~~ |
||
![]() |
|
durn for'ner
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of Sweden
Posts: 17,090
|
Thanks, Charles.
Please excuse my being blunt, but it is a topic that is more 'foggy' to amateurs than most issues - almost religious. In the end we all have to form our own opinion and decide for our selves. It is wise then, to have listened to as many insightful people as possible. Even if that leaves one more confused, the confusion is at least on a slightly higher level. ![]()
__________________
Markus Resident Fluffer Carrera '85 |
||
![]() |
|
Autodidactic user
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Summerfield, NC
Posts: 1,298
|
Quote:
![]()
__________________
Please help the MFI community keep the Ultimate MFI resources thread and the Mechanical fuel injection resource index up to date. Send me a PM and I'll add your materials and suggestions. ![]() 1973 911E Targa (MFI) |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,911
|
Quote:
Zn and P levels are just the tip of the iceberg.... as evidence shows that the Brad Penn works great, but it only has 1200 ppm Zn and 1100 ppm P. Just in a paper I was reading this evening, just published November 1st of this year and presented in Chicago, I finally found, in print, what I suspected. That the lower levels of co-detergents Ca, Mg, and Na, provide significantly less wear than an oil with an equal TBN, but all Ca, which most modern oils employ as the major source of TBN in form of metallic detergents. It's little tidbits like this that you have to pour through countless research papers to find to answer the question of why they did that! http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/lifters.htm The above link goes back to '04 and '05 when I was doing some R&D work with Aircooled Technology, trying to find a viable alternative to the sintered silicon nitride followers we were having made up ($$$), and hasn't been updated in years, but you can see the kind of wear we were experiencing. There is even mention that they were working with LN beginning in '06 to see if lubricants could be used to address the problem. And they did. That particular shop switched to Brad Penn and hasn't looked back! Athough not linked to anywhere, all the complete photos from each stage of lifter testing from our complete matrix are here: http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/galleries/Lifter%20Testing/ EDIT: that's not the complete gamut of lifters we tested, just a sampling. If you're curious, the matrix was something like 8 x 8 for various lifters and processes done to each, from coatings, to plating (we even tried hard chroming and nikasil on wear surfaces!), and various different surface profiles (radius). I did the research and leg work processing various lifters, Aircooled Technology built the spintron and did the thousands of hours of run time. All tests were run with Castrol GTX 20w50 API SG. Our solution, until the company that was making them went belly up, were the aforementioned 'ceramic' lifters: http://www.lnengineering.com/lifters2.htm
__________________
Charles Navarro President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service http://www.LNengineering.com Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution Last edited by cnavarro; 12-13-2007 at 04:36 PM.. |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 7,007
|
Quote:
Markus,..your comment about this subject approaching religious fervor is accurate,... ![]() ![]() It rivals discussions about politics and religion for sure, however not everyone has a depth of experience and knowledge on this particular subject to make an accurate call about engines and lubrication effects. ![]() Most people working this business begin with mentors that help accelerate a 50+ year learning curve and they share the benefits of their experiences. This cumulative, long-term perspective shapes one's opinions based on looking at hundreds of engines, hopefully of the same type to spot any trends or anomolies. No different from medical decisions, one should consult qualified & experienced personnel whose breadth of knowledge encompasses the specific vehicles in question. In this fashion, one receives the most accurate and objective input, free of ANY potential conflict of interests.
__________________
Steve Weiner Rennsport Systems Portland Oregon (503) 244-0990 porsche@rennsportsystems.com www.rennsportsystems.com |
||
![]() |
|
AutoBahned
|
unless they own a radiology clinic....
|
||
![]() |
|
durn for'ner
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of Sweden
Posts: 17,090
|
Jolly good show! Thanks a lot guys!
![]()
__________________
Markus Resident Fluffer Carrera '85 |
||
![]() |
|
just me
|
hey folks,
love this thread. I am also breathing a sigh of relief that mahle filters are on the good list if not at the top got the brad penn oil this morning and it was 41 dollars a case for 20w50 racing not sure if that is a good or bad deal any way, couldn't get my hands on a mobil 1 or k&n gold so I went with a napa gold unfortunately my oil change got snowed out maybe tomorrow will be better
__________________
1975 911s, 3.2l and 915 transmission front oil cooler RUF replica bumper ducktail and SC rear flares SW chip ssi's m&k 2 in 1 out sc front calipers PF 97 pads fuchs 16 x 7 and 8 225/ 245 toyo ra-1s 22/29 torsion bars 25mm Charlie Bars Neatrix bushings lowered and corner balanced DAS bolt in roll bar kirkey seat 5 point harnesses. http://www.hairydoggrrrage.com/ |
||
![]() |
|
Registered
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 201
|
Quote:
Why would Doug choose the '84 MY change for recommending the SM oils being good enough for the engines that came after that? Not that much has changed in the valve train to pick that point in time if you ask me. I have an '82 SC with the carrera tensioner upgrade so that would make my engine close to a '84 and on model but I still chose Swepco 306 15 W40. If he picked the 993 model year I could follow his reasoning a bit better with the change in valve lash control but even then the rockers and cams are not that much different. I'd say all air-cooled 911 engines are close enough in design to benefit from the same good lubricants and it is your choice if you trust the changes that have been made to these essential fluids by the big company's ![]() I trust Charles and Steve's (and Jake at Air-cooled Technology) judgment as they deal with more engines than I ever will own, maintain or build in my life.
__________________
'82 911 SC |
||
![]() |
|