Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[axl911]

Here is my result from Blackstone for 20w50 after 3K miles.
Phosporous 1170
Zinc 1267

[Trackrash]

Outstanding article in May's Excellence mag on motor oils for Porsches. It has a good explanation of "Group I,II,III,IV,and V" base stock oils and their significance.

[M.D. Holloway]

pretty solid antiwear pack there, what was the TBN?

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by axl911

Here is my result from Blackstone for 20w50 after 3K miles.
Phosporous 1170
Zinc 1267

Which oil?

[tellch00]

Not sure if this thread is still active, but i'll give it a shot. I realize most of this thread is primarily dedicated to air cooled cars. I'd like to get some opinions on oil choice for my '07 997 turbo.

The car has 50,000 miles and modified with ECU tune, modified VTG turbo's, and intercoolers. I'm in NY so I see all types of weather.

The factory fill is Mobil 0W-40 and what i've mostly used. In doing some reading on the various boards some suggest using Mobil 5W-50, or even their turbo-diesel oil. It's also been suggested to use Redline 5W-40 however there have been some strong arguements for/against both of these.

The following is a message I received from somemone on another board (I believe he works for one of the major oil companies):

" My problem with Redline is that they hold no OEM approvals. They claim their product to be ester or partially ester based but are not specific. All I can say is that esters can handle high temperatures well but only if the rest of the formulation is sound.

If it was my vehicle I would stay with the Mobil 1 Euro formulation 0W-40. It has all the credentials & has been through all the approvals testing sucessfully. Redline has not. If they are serious they should get the approvals. The fact that they have not makes me suspicious. I'm tired of these mickey mouse companies buying cheap formulations from the additive peddlers - taking the "meets the requirements of" XYZ route instead of getting the approvals. They could buy a ready approved formulation from the additive majors like Lubrizol, Oronite or Infineum etc. But they don't so they can maximise margin.

Rather stick with the M1 and ensure proper oil cooling. Far more important on a track car."

Any validity to this statement? I'm wondering if i'm overthinking this whole thing, as I change the oil every 5,000 miles. With the new cars and a reasonable change interval, is the oil I use really that important?

So, to make it simple assume i'm looking at 3 different oil choices - Mobil 0W-40, Mobil 5W-50 or Redline 5W-40. BTW, the shop that did the work on my car (past Daytona 24 hr winner) recommended Redline.

The car will be a long term keeper and will end up seeing 100,000 miles or more - God willing LOL.

[hcoles]

subscribed - maybe again
If it was me I'd stick with the factory recommendations for this car.
Re. how long to leave it in there, 5k might be a bit short some tests show the measured attributes using oil testing show the oil is good for 15k. It might be worth testing the oil every 5k miles and see what the readings are.

[j911brick]

Yes, the oil you use is important if you plan to keep the car a long time. There may be several reasons why Red-line does not have certain certifications.

[tellch00]

Originally Posted by hcoles

subscribed - maybe again
If it was me I'd stick with the factory recommendations for this car.
Re. how long to leave it in there, 5k might be a bit short some tests show the measured attributes using oil testing show the oil is good for 15k. It might be worth testing the oil every 5k miles and see what the readings are.

I should have been more clear - the viscosity of the oils I listed are all "approved" porsche types. Just trying to figure out which would be best.

[brads911sc]

on an 2007, not sure it matters. Id stick with the M1.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by tellch00

I should have been more clear - the viscosity of the oils I listed are all "approved" porsche types. Just trying to figure out which would be best.

FWIW,.........

JMHO, but there are two MUCH better Porsche-approved alternatives to Mobil 1 0w-40:

Total Quartz 5w-40
Motul 8100 X-cess 5w-40

I won't put M1 0w-40 in anything.

[Nick Triesch]

Wait a minute! I just bought 4 cases of Valvoline VR1 because you guys told me to! " Glory to Brad Penn in the name of the Royal purple, the Mobile ! and the holy Red line, Amen" . Nick

[B.Green]

Benefited greatly from this thread. Thanks Gentlemen!

Because of this I have a case of Brad Penn and some Delo in the garage waiting to go into some projects. Curious, are any of the experts here familiar with a product called CamGuard (ASL)?

I came across it after following a newsletter dedicated to maintaining and extending life of older technology, air cooled aircraft engines. Oil analysis is pretty much the standard there and getting approvals from the Feds is a tough task.

I was attracted to it for the anti corrosion qualities for more infrequently operated engines. Being generally leery of "additives", I watched the reports over the years to the point that it would appear that the experience of rebuild shops and oil analysis labs is that this stuff works.

Now that I am finally a Pcar (88 3.2 Coupe) owner, I am looking at their wear tests as it might relate to flat tappet designs and lower zinc oils. While I have not seen formulations discussed, I notice they reference needs caused by low zinc oils but they specifically state that there is no phosphorous (for cat converters).

Now that I have started running it in the aircraft I will watch zinc trends, but thought its apparent track record was worth asking about here for all of the obvious reasons.

[Steve@Rennsport]

B.Green,

JMHO,...........

I would not use ANY additive in the Brad-Penn 20w-50 racing oil. That product contains sufficient ZDDP to protect the engine and any further fortification upsets the critical balance between anti-wear additives and the detergent package.

[B.Green]

Thank you Steve.

Sorry that I was not clear. I did not mean to suggest that I was thinking about adding CamGuard to Penn products. Respect your opinion on that.

Only brought up based on the thoughtful and professional contributions to this thread. My NON-professional investigation shows some sign of potential and was hoping to confirm (or not) that potential from some contributing experts.

To add, I feel strongly about supporting suppliers that are supporting our needs with their current products and I will continue to do so until such time as it becomes more difficult and expensive to do so (admit the product and shipping hurts $$ a bit).

I will gladly accept the summary judgment of this thread. Only meant to:
1. Ask if any of the experts here were familiar with the product (no search hits).
2. See if it offered a "real" alternate to some folks interested in this subject.
3. Get some possible professional input about my personal decision to try it in a somewhat similar air cooled aircraft application.

Thanks again.

Bob

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by B.Green

Thank you Steve.

You are most welcome,...

I will gladly accept the summary judgment of this thread. Only meant to:
1. Ask if any of the experts here were familiar with the product (no search hits).
2. See if it offered a "real" alternate to some folks interested in this subject.
3. Get some possible professional input about my personal decision to try it in a somewhat similar air cooled aircraft application.

Bob

Hi Bob,

I'd be careful about A/C applications unless the manufacturer, Lycoming or Continental, can specifically tell you what minimum ZDDP requirements are. The 0-320-H did require a ZDDP additive via an AD to prevent lifter spalling, however thats a totally different set of circumstances. Remember, automobile oils contain zero lead scavenging agents and thats a BIG problem when using 80 octane or 100LL in those engines.

[B.Green]

Thanks again Steve for the important point about aviation products. I hope that is why ASL CamGuard has both Aviation, Automotive, Marine and Small Engine products.

Still hoping I am doing the right thing with BP 20-50. Bought the car used (88 - 105K miles) with records showing a long history of Mobil 1 15-50w. Seen some evidence in this thread that it has elevated levels of ZDDP (1300-1400) but I can't find current levels on Mobil's website. That and the fact that this thread would warn that levels often change rapidly from published values caused me the concern.

Perhaps it is not worth worrying about the past, but I can't help it.

Bob

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by B.Green

Still hoping I am doing the right thing with BP 20-50. Bought the car used (88 - 105K miles) with records showing a long history of Mobil 1 15-50w. Seen some evidence in this thread that it has elevated levels of ZDDP (1300-1400) but I can't find current levels on Mobil's website. That and the fact that this thread would warn that levels often change rapidly from published values caused me the concern.

Perhaps it is not worth worrying about the past, but I can't help it.

Bob

Hi Bob,

Without a doubt, you are doing the right thing using B-P in your Carrera. Change it frequently and that engine can outlast you,.....

Mobil has changed the formula on their 15w-50 product quite a few times over the past 4 years and that is whats really unsettling, especially with their reticence about the changes and current ZDDP content. I've simply lost confidence in that product and no longer recommend nor use it.

[HarryD]

So, as many of you know, the Factory restored a 1973 911T to it's (almost) original glory amd it is being auctioned off at the 2011 Parade.

The restoration included a complete engine rebuild (of course).

Now, inquiring minds want to know what oil they thought should be used to keep this factory restoration in tip top shape.

Over at the Early 911S Registry, beh911 posted some pictures (starting at post #73) in this thread: Porsche factory classic restoration shop.

Included is the Factory oil recommendation:



discuss....

[Tincanguy]

Been using Shell Rotella T, 15-40 and its predecessors for years. My 88 Carrera Targa with 95K miles uses a quart/2.5k miles, has no leaks, does not smoke and still has the original valve guides. Light service, no track time This oil has served me well.

[ratpiper71T]

Note the Castol used is CLASSIC 20w-50 wich is apparently not available in the U.S. of A. If you look on the Castrol website the language is vague, yet seems to suggest that ithas adequate ZDDP(?) maybe...I think it's rebadged Castrol SYNTEC 20w-50. BUt that's just my uneducated opinion.