959 PPI Update, RE: Color Change...

[Wayne 962]

On the previous PPI thread, there was some discussion on whether or not the car was originally black or not:

Project Car: 959 - The PPI...

Well, I am happy to report that there is no doubt in my mind that the car was originally black from the factory - it has not been repainted from another color. This afternoon, we took another close look at the inside of the trunk, under the windscreen, inside the front wheel wells, and the shock towers. There has been no repaint over the original metal plates on the front of the car, and the several 959-specific stickers / plates that are glued there. Tony Callas and Grant from Callas Rennsport did not spot any evidence of a color change in their inspection - they were definitely spot-on in their assessment of the car's paint and original condition.

I spoke with one of the sales managers at the place where I bought the car, and he did mention that he advertised the car many years ago as having been repainted, but then corrected himself when the owner commented that it had not been repainted. I believe that the confusion probably lies in the fact that the silver wheels were repainted and refurbished at one time.

In addition, I have ordered the certificate of authenticity from Porsche, and that should also shed some light on the original color and options of the car.

Some of you have asked about what the first project will be on this car. Well, oddly enough, I think I may first start by replacing the carpet. WHY? Because on these 959s, they used some type of "special" thick carpet with some type of chemical / foam backing that has started to breakdown and "outgas" over the years. Well, as you might expect, this produces a horrible smell both inside the front trunk, and inside the main cabin. It really smells like old fuel that is leaking out of somewhere. So, I will probably have a carpet kit manufactured from newer, less-toxic materials and install that in the car. Until then, I don't think that my wife will ride in the car with me!

More updates to come, and we'll post the pics from the front trunk inspection tomorrrow.

-Wayne

[Komenda Fan]

Right, so RS carpet kit, RS door panels, dump the stereo...oh, sorry, not your run-of-the-mill 911 this one? Right then.

[MattAlpha]

Great to hear Wayne.

Have fun with that...

[Trotskyite]

Yeah I'd go for a 959RS. Maybe even a longhood conversion. That thing just needs some chrome.

[Danny_Ocean]

Do any "typical" parts from a 911 (or subsequent models) fit the 959? I haven't seen many 959 parts catalogs floating around...

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

Do any "typical" parts from a 911 (or subsequent models) fit the 959? I haven't seen many 959 parts catalogs floating around...

Some, but not as many as you'd think. The interior is very similar to the 1988 Carreras, which I actually very much like...

959 Parts Diagrams are here:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/PartsLookup/HTML/SubCat/E_959_KATALOG.htm

-Wayne

[dtw]

'72 911 oil door and hinge are on the 959!!

If you have the PET, you can find 959 PNs and query them right here on Pelican.

[Wayne 962]

Here are the photos we took of the front trunk area yesterday:

[the]

I take it a 959 doesn't have a paint color code sticker or plate, like a "normal" 911 would?

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

Until then, I don't think that my wife will ride in the car with me!

-Wayne

How much for the old carpet?

[Buckterrier]

Wayne, if need be I have a piece of equipment that measures paint film build down to the 1/10th of a mil. If it's repainted it would have approx. 2 mils more primer & paint than the factory paint job which with e-coat, primer, topcoat would be around 3 - 3.5 mils. If it has clearcoat on it add another 1.5 or so.
Could ship it to you to use if needed.
Awesome ride btw!!!!!!

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Wayne, if need be I have a piece of equipment that measures paint film build down to the 1/10th of a mil. If it's repainted it would have approx. 2 mils more primer & paint than the factory paint job which with e-coat, primer, topcoat would be around 3 - 3.5 mils. If it has clearcoat on it add another 1.5 or so.
Could ship it to you to use if needed.
Awesome ride btw!!!!!!

Thanks, but Tony Callas has one of those space-age detectors too, but it didn't work on the carbon-kevlar sections (which is everything but the doors and the front hood). The doors and hood are the only panels made out of metal, and those are aluminum...

-Wayne

[Buckterrier]

NP Wayne, I didn't realize it was made from such cool stuff!!! (should do my homework). My probe does measure non-ferous material such as aluminum also. Come to think of it, I'm going to measure the film on mine. Curious as to how much is on the body. I'll post here or another thread on the results.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

Until then, I don't think that my wife will ride in the car with me!

If she won't ride with you, I'll volunteer for shotgun duty.

[Wayne 962]

Another update:

Spoke with the service manager who has taken care of the car since it entered the states. The silver car used in the 959 Road & Track comparison was another 959 that they had imported - it wasn't my car. My car was originally black-metallic, and was repainted to be black.

-Wayne

[Buckterrier]

That's odd someone would go from black metallic to black. But to each his own I suppose. Above I stated I should do my homework. I did read up on the cars.
So now this question... Why in the world would ANYONE let a car of that rarity, (only 200 made?), and a cool factor of pye squared let in get in such shape like that? That's like letting Secretariat become a plow horse with mainge!!!
But she's in good hands now and will become what she once was.

[Jay Laifman]

Since you are sharing this so publically, I guess the question remains if the black you see around the stickers and buried deep in the recesses of the car shows any of the metallic paint. On hindsight, it would probably be very difficult to notice that on an inspection if you didn't know it was there to look for it.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

Since you are sharing this so publically, I guess the question remains if the black you see around the stickers and buried deep in the recesses of the car shows any of the metallic paint. On hindsight, it would probably be very difficult to notice that on an inspection if you didn't know it was there to look for it.

I was thinking the same thing. Hard work to do a repaint and not have it show. Black over metallic black made that job much easier.

As I said before, the car is beautiful. No need to repaint it again.

[stout]

Originally Posted by milt

I was thinking the same thing. Hard work to do a repaint and not have it show. Black over metallic black made that job much easier.

As I said before, the car is beautiful. No need to repaint it again.

+1. Also wondering if all 959s were painted flat black on their inner sections. I'll do some research on that here. I peeled the trunk carpeting back on every one of the 15+ 959s that were at Canepa's when I was there, but I can't remember the color of the inner surfaces on 959s.

They may be body color, as on most production Porsches, but they may not have been, too.

My main reason for looking into all those trunks was to see if the Bauer body numbers corresponded to the VINs, which they did not. I suspect Bauer built the bodies and sent them to Porsche, where they were pushed into storage and then pulled out as needed -- hence the random body number sequence when compared to VINs. And there was a big variance...

As for this car's current state, I am in 100% agreement with Milt. This car is beautiful as is. And there are enough "plastic bag" 959s out there already to represent the model. I'm excited that this one has fallen into hands that are not afraid to tear into it and fix things sensibly. And hands that will use it.

Prove me right, Wayne.

pete

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

Since you are sharing this so publically, I guess the question remains if the black you see around the stickers and buried deep in the recesses of the car shows any of the metallic paint. On hindsight, it would probably be very difficult to notice that on an inspection if you didn't know it was there to look for it.

Yes, all of the places where the stickers are is metallic. When they painted the cars from the factory, they usually used a differnt color (like flat black) for the inside sheet metal (areas in the front trunk). The panel where the VIN plates and other stickers are is definitely black metallic. I noticed this previously, but didn't put two and two together that the entire exterior had been metallic.

Doesn't terribly matter to me...

-Wayne