Smog Test: There should be an exception for classics...

[yelcab1]

Every year they send me an offer to take my 80 SC for $500. How nice of them.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by Hester

Hey, California: love it or leave it....

Or stay and be regulated out of every last freedom you have while being nickle/dime'd into poverty.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The CA smog-nazi crap is B.S. It just epitomizes the desire of CA government to control each and every detail of the lives of the peasants (you and me). It's not just about cars, or classic cars, etc. It goes a lot further than that... This is just one example that happens to hit us personally because we're car enthusiasts.

If you think the repeal of the rolling 30-year exemption was the end of it, you're kidding yourselves. Just this past year there was a movement by a state rep. from the San Joquin Valley who tried to stick a "rider" in an appropriations bill that would have eliminated the exemption entirely for residents of the S.J. Valley (the "first domino"). There were several threads about this by me and others - if you search you can probably find them and research it.

Point is, don't think for one minute the control freaks in government are going to be satisfied until they control each and every last aspect of your and my lives, down to the amount of toilet paper you use. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind - none - that given their druthers, this is exactly where the current mindset of CA government would take us. It'd make communist China look like a party in Tijuana.

But it's okay if it's "for the children", right?

The only thing keeping me in CA right now is my wife's job (she loves it and is doing well at it). If something ever happens and she decides to call it quits, I'll have my stuff packed and the truck idling in the alley ready to go within 48 hours. I ain't kidding.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Point is, don't think for one minute the control freaks in government are going to be satisfied until they control each and every last aspect of your and my lives, down to the amount of toilet paper you use.

Not far off...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/08/BA3N1275DD.DTL

[Peter Zimmermann]

I've lived in CA long enough to see our smog problem reach China levels, and then watch it get better, and better, and better... I've driven to work at 6:00 am through stunningly beautiful Malibu Canyon (from the Conejo Valley to Santa Monica) and I've been stuck behind cars that spewed so much pollution that I had trouble breathing, had to drop back a little and open all my windows. I now live in Central, CA (Bakersfield), and am experiencing, on a daily basis, some of the worst air quality ever (and even here its nothing like China). Here in the south valley we generate pollution, like anywhere else, but because of air currents we are also inundated with all of the smog created in the San Francisco Bay Area. It comes down through the center of the state, runs into the mountains south and east of us, and gets stuck there. I can only shudder at the level of smog that we would have if legislation regarding emissions laws had not been passed. That said, I drive an '82 SC, I faithfully take the car to the local test-only station every two years, and leave there knowing that my 25-year old P-car runs cleaner than a 5-year old Honda (this from the tester) - and that I'm not contributing to the problem. In CA, if you want to build a performance-based car that can be licensed for the street, buy a '75 or older model, with a '75 or older engine number, and build away - no one will bother you.

The above mentioned criteria for 4 years/15K miles, whichever happens first, has substance, but the state will never do that because they have no way of monitoring your mileage. It's much easier to disconnect the wire in your tunnel than to jack up your car, remove its exhaust, install the SSIs and muffler, drive it about 22 months, and then put it all back to original again. The problem with not complying is not about, "My car is only one car, what difference can it make?" It's about where one goes thousands will follow, and when you see the CO and HC readings on an average 911 with carbs or MFI, it's not a pretty picture. One car can pollute worse than hundreds of cars in compliance, and in a state with 30 million cars it's just not worth the risk. Leave CA? Sure I could, but it wouldn't be because of emissions laws...

[Mysterytrain]

Well, New Jersey has QQ plates for antique car registration and collector car registration. The antique status is for cars over 25 years old and limits you to 1200 miles a year, to and from shows and no night time driving, no smog. The collector car status limits you to 2500 miles a year and no smog. Luckily I have been grandfathered in because they have resently changed the requirements so that the collector car can not be more then 25 years old! Once it hits 26 you must go the QQ route. It appears they want these cars off the road.

[ossiblue]

How about this:

Establish an age, say 25 years old, for a classic car.
Leave the current smog testing program in effect.
But, any classic car that passes smog will not be charged for the testing. The testing station will be reimbursed by the state.

Is this possible? Sure. Would it ever happen? Absolutely not. It's all about the revenue stream

[avendlerdp]

Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann

I've lived in CA long enough to see our smog problem reach China levels, and then watch it get better, and better, and better... I've driven to work at 6:00 am through stunningly beautiful Malibu Canyon (from the Conejo Valley to Santa Monica) and I've been stuck behind cars that spewed so much pollution that I had trouble breathing, had to drop back a little and open all my windows. I now live in Central, CA (Bakersfield), and am experiencing, on a daily basis, some of the worst air quality ever (and even here its nothing like China). Here in the south valley we generate pollution, like anywhere else, but because of air currents we are also inundated with all of the smog created in the San Francisco Bay Area. It comes down through the center of the state, runs into the mountains south and east of us, and gets stuck there. I can only shudder at the level of smog that we would have if legislation regarding emissions laws not been passed. That said, I drive an '82 SC, I faithfully take the car to the local test-only station every two years, and leave there knowing that my 25-year old P-car runs cleaner than a 5-year old Honda (this from the tester) - and that I'm not contributing to the problem. In CA, if you want to build a performance-based car that can be licensed for the street, buy a '75 or older model, with a '75 or older engine number, and build away - no one will bother you.

+1 in a big way. Why don't you just make that modified car a track car and then do as you like with it. Those 1500 miles you drive with all the smog devices off may generate the equivalent amount of smog to 100k miles in a clean car.

As an LA resident I can really see our smog laws paying off in clean air. The smog alert days of the 1970's and 80's are a over and I don't miss them.

[red 69]

I got tired of the laws about smog every two years testing, so i have a 69 porsche 911 no smog , high output eng, exh best of all its red and no smog thanks ca

[Porsche-O-Phile]

"Fair" to me would be either (1) having a rolling 30-year exemption (like we had) or (2) allowing an exemption for cars registered/insured under a "classic" designation - i.e. <2,000 miles a year or whatever Haggarty is requiring these days. Nothing wrong with that.

It blows my mind that people would go on the warpath about a handful of classic cars that are driven very infrequently, yet not care in the least about our state's fleet of 1960s-era, non-low-sulfur-diesel school buses, powerboats, jet skis, 2-stroke lawn & landscape equipment and so on - each of which is probably a LOT bigger contributor to air pollution than a few 30+ year-old vehicles driven around the block on weekends.

[avendlerdp]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

"Fair" to me would be either (1) having a rolling 30-year exemption (like we had) or (2) allowing an exemption for cars registered/insured under a "classic" designation - i.e. <2,000 miles a year or whatever Haggarty is requiring these days. Nothing wrong with that.

It blows my mind that people would go on the warpath about a handful of classic cars that are driven very infrequently, yet not care in the least about our state's fleet of 1960s-era, non-low-sulfur-diesel school buses, powerboats, jet skis, 2-stroke lawn & landscape equipment and so on - each of which is probably a LOT bigger contributor to air pollution than a few 30+ year-old vehicles driven around the block on weekends.

THis is headed off topic but....

I agree for the most part but it's like saying "Everyone litters so I can too." By the way, go try and buy a two stroke anything. Not available. Lawn blowers to personal watercraft; even dirt bikes. Four stroke, equipped with PVC and evap. canisters too. The times they are a changin'.

Besides, $5+ a gallon gas will fix all this once and for all. When it costs one months pay to haul the toys out to the desert or river and run them for a weekend that whole thing will fade away. As a lifelong RV user I'll miss it but perhaps I should be glad I was alive during the "cheap fuel fiesta".

Now if I could just finish that all electric jetski project...

[Doug Steinel]

You guys in CA ought to lighten up. If you don't sacrifice to keep the air clean, where will the Chinese get any clean air to pollute! Do your duty.

[evilfij]

PA has what I consider to be very sensible laws on this.

15 years and classic plates: no emissions inspections

25 years and antique plates: no inspections of any kind

The problem with california in my view is that you all only test emissions. When I was out there, I saw a lot of cars which appeared unsafe and I doubt would pass PA safety inspection.

IMHO and whatnot.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by evilfij

PA has what I consider to be very sensible laws on this.

15 years and classic plates: no emissions inspections

25 years and antique plates: no inspections of any kind

The problem with california in my view is that you all only test emissions. When I was out there, I saw a lot of cars which appeared unsafe and I doubt would pass PA safety inspection.

IMHO and whatnot.

YES!!!

This will be my last post on the subject because it's getting off-topic, but I agree wholeheartedly.

The problem is CA won't implement safety checks because some lawyer would claim it's "racial profiling" or somehow discrimination against particular socioeconomic or ethnic groups.

Ultimately this stuff is all about the money anyway. Any real benefit - whether pertaining to safety or air quality - is incidental.

[acapella8]

Illinois is exempt for AV vehicles (antiques)

[Vipergrün]

You *can* pass smog w/o a cat. Just need to lean it out. Helps to find an out of the way shop and have an extra couple of 20's in your pocket just in case.

BTW, Mike, I did not realize you are in Newbury! Just moved back from Colorado and we're in the 'Ranch

[jjrowe]

I have never had the original thermal reactors on my car and it has passed the smog test every time. The smog agents look for the EGR setup and the pump on my car for the visual and my motor runs clean enough that I don't need the reactors. Unlike most Porsche owners, I also leave the pump on at all times. I don't notice any difference in power so why not possibly release less pollution? I moved down here from Oregon and I was pretty put off by the whole DMV experience. Then I realized that California is full of people who will gladly drive to Mexico for R-22 to save $20 or steal registration stickers to continue driving gross polluting vehicles. I guess that kind of mindset requires these laws.

If you don't like smog laws, leave California!

Jesse
1976 911S

[Vipergrün]

Originally Posted by jjrowe

I have never had the original thermal reactors on my car and it has passed the smog test every time. The smog agents look for the EGR setup and the pump on my car for the visual and my motor runs clean enough that I don't need the reactors. Unlike most Porsche owners, I also leave the pump on at all times. I don't notice any difference in power so why not possibly release less pollution? I moved down here from Oregon and I was pretty put off by the whole DMV experience. Then I realized that California is full of people who will gladly drive to Mexico for R-22 to save $20 or steal registration stickers to continue driving gross polluting vehicles. I guess that kind of mindset requires these laws.

If you don't like smog laws, leave California!

Jesse
1976 911S

Jesse, while I admire your 'boy scout' attitude, the truth is that there is virtually no need for smog checks anymore. The proportion of "gross polluting" old cars creating smog is pretty low. Additionally, the vehicles that SHOULD be regulated are not. I believe that pickup trucks, SUV's and some public utility buses do not have to meet the same stringent requirements as passenger vehicles. Some states, like Colorado, the epitomy of outdoorists, just repealed smog requirements in many counties. Perhaps we're not happy with the feeling we're getting fleeced by our State government. Rather than tucking our tails and leaving the State, perhaps we as consumers should grow a set and do something about it. Just a thought.

[imcarthur]

Ontario is exempt for everything 1987 & earlier . . .

I won THAT lottery.

Ian

[jjrowe]

Brad, I will try to read beyond your backhanded compliments and sarcasm and get the to point of your post. You feel that smog laws could change to be more beneficial to us porsche owners because they currently are not "fair". So you are going to grab your "set" (large I'm sure) and do something about it. I am all for change if it makes sense, the problem is that I haven't seen a proposal that makes any more sense than what we have. "Fair" is relative (what is a "fair" price for a gallon of gas?). You make bold statements without any basis: how are we being "fleeced", and do you have data on the amount of smog generated from gross polluters? Just because some vehicles are not being smogged as strictly as our cars doesn't remove our responsibility (there goes my boy scout thing again).

Jesse
1976 911S