3.6 conversion experts: Are dual Carrera coolers enough? - Page 2

mjshira · 01-09-2011, 03:35 PM

I run two. Never had any issues and that includes in mid west and south heat.

Jeff Higgins · 01-09-2011, 04:24 PM

Randy, why would the center cooler be run in parallel with the left cooler, instead of in series?

Jack Olsen · 01-09-2011, 07:58 PM

Coolers are more efficient when the oil going in is hotter, relative to ambient -- so parallel is theoretically better than series. Randy's setup makes sense that way.

I have a Carrera and a Terbatrol, in series.

AlfonsoR · 01-09-2011, 08:01 PM

Is it Black Beauty or Badass Beauty??? Hmmm....maybe BBB.

Jaskas · 01-10-2011, 05:26 AM

Thanks for the advices!

ATM I´m running only one carrera cooler with a big scoop under the spoiler as well the foglight removed. Plus fan offcourse. It is not enough for the track.

What is the exact size or model of the coolers you are using? It would be great that the fittings would be on the top or bottom.

Wilywilly · 01-10-2011, 06:10 AM

Great Looking Car Jack. At first I thought that the way the coolers are set up in your beast would be ineffective as the oil would flow the path of least resistance but then it dawned on me that its operating under pressure so thats n/a. Makes sense the way you have it set up. Heres my SWB 3.6

Bill

Jaskas · 01-10-2011, 08:18 AM

Can you fit an 993 cooler to the right fender? I think that might do the trick too? The i could use the original carrera cooler as a plan B to the drivers side.

Simpler is always better.

But the place looks a bit thight:

I might have to measure my friends 993´s cooler.

Randy W · Randy W's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Randy, why would the center cooler be run in parallel with the left cooler, instead of in series?

According to Chris Powell, (PCA Technical Committee) this configuration allows for better cooling and oil flow.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

I'd like to see some tech data to prove that.....seems overly complicated.

Wilywilly · 01-10-2011, 09:03 AM

The 993 coolers are way to wide to fit in the early cars. The Carerra ones do fit.

Jeff Higgins · 01-10-2011, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy W

According to Chris Powell, (PCA Technical Committee) this configuration allows for better cooling and oil flow.

Interesting; I would have never thought that to be the case. Of course Chris has forgotten more about all of this than I will ever learn...

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaskas

Can you fit an 993 cooler to the right fender? I think that might do the trick too? The i could use the original carrera cooler as a plan B to the drivers side.

Simpler is always better.

But the place looks a bit thight:

I might have to measure my friends 993´s cooler.

964/993 oil coolers are mounted sideways, the chassis has ducts built in

passenger side

drivers side

they are mounted in series, one wasn't enough to keep my 3.8 oil temp under control on hot track days.

One valance mount has been fine for street use w/ both 3.6 and 3.8

the guys that track similarly set up early cars need a bigger valance mount and often a second fender mount, again usually in series, the only problem w/ parallel plumbing is that you will get proportional flow which depends on the cooler internal resistance, you also see less rise in pressures. W/ series all the oil goes thru all the available cooling but you also see a rise in pressures. the pressure rise doesn't present a problem. Randy's 2 fender mounts are in series and the valance mount is in parallel. Probably a good way to go if you have 3

I have seen sideways mounted early car set ups, Jim Newton's car runs that way

Jaskas · 01-10-2011, 10:45 AM

Thanks again Bill, those are great pics to clarify the 993 cooling!

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaskas

Thanks again Bill, those are great pics to clarify the 993 cooling!

The thing not shown is the wheel well liners that complete the ducting, hot air is drawn out of a low pressure area under the spoiler in front of the wheels

Jaskas · 01-10-2011, 11:32 AM

That one can be seen quite easily when you look 993 from front corner... I think that it is almost impossible to get the needed airflow to impactbumper wo modification to chassis...

PcarPhil · 01-10-2011, 03:13 PM

Great info folks!

I'm back on track with a 3.6 conversion into my '77 widebody. It's a fresh '91 964 engine with 993 heat exchangers and Wong chip.

I'm probably going to install a 964 cooler with ducting in my RF fender and move the Carrera cooler with ducting into the LF fender.

When I get to working on the coolers I'll update the thread with some pics and feedback.

rothaus · 01-11-2011, 04:28 AM

After reading all the posts, it looks to me, that a front middle mounted cooler would be OK for a 3.6L conversion, in my '71T for Auticross and some street driving.

Like this one

Mocal 911/930 Front Spoiler Oil Cooler- 70 Row

Wilywilly · 01-11-2011, 06:43 AM

Don't know for certain but have heard that MoCal coolers are SAE which is problematic (meaning more expensive) when hooking them up to Metric lines.

KTL · 08:56 AM

I'm certainly not going to question series vs. parallel arrangement. It's a preference and also a packaging issue depending on how much you want to modify the tub to plumb your cooler(s). But I will say that it seems wasteful, from a thermal benefit perspective, to plumb in a big center cooler between the two fender coolers, but not feed it any cooling air.

Rule of thumb is always get as much air as you can across your coolers and that's where a lot of 3.6 users are cheating themselves with their center cooler. It's there, but it's efficiency is way down if the chassis tub is too close behind it, substantially reducing the air volume thru the cooling fins.

Mocals aren't a problem with the line size itself, since most everybody here in the states is using AN line. AN fittings hook up to the Mocal no problem. It's at the other end where you have to connect the cooler lines to the Porsche metrics back at the engine/thermostat. That's where these come in handy

http://www.elephantracing.com/oilhandling/adapter/911adapter.htm

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTL

....
Rule of thumb is always get as much air as you can across your coolers and that's where a lot of 3.6 users are cheating themselves with their center cooler. It's there, but it's efficiency is way down if the chassis tub is too close behind it, substantially reducing the air volume thru the cooling fins.

......
Oil cooler fittings, adaptors, and unions Elephant Racing

The valance location itself exposes the cooler to far greater flow than any traditional 911 fender mount location.

Yes, you need flow, the question is do you have enough? The single 5 1/2 X 2 1/4 X 20 B&B pictured on my car w/ no tub modification has proven to be sufficient during 16 yrs of use w/ modified 3.6 and 3.8 engines, temps have always been under control on the hottest days and in traffic.

That car is not tracked though. Track use puts a far heavier load on the oil cooling system, for that sort of use a bigger cooler, something like A B&B 6 x 3 x 24 would be needed and most that install these also install the RSR relief panel too. Some even use additional coolers in the fenders.