EFI/TB ITB D-Zug Injection System

[Topgun63]

Has anyone purchased this system from D-ZUG? I have a 2.7 CIS and was moving to PMO's until I found this set-up. Any comments? DZ X-Factory ITB Setup

[James Brown]

talk to the inventor al lkosmal, he is here on the forum!!

[allaircooled]

That looks pretty sweet. Would be interested in hearing someones opinion on this setup as well.

[Danny_Ocean]

Can you use the stock igntion ('79 SC)?

[Tippy]

If you went ITB/EFI, it'd be silly not to run fully programmable ignition.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by Tippy

If you went ITB/EFI, it'd be silly not to run fully programmable ignition.

It would also be silly to spend every last dime to my name...that's why I'm asking. Until I can afford the whole 9 yards, can I use my stock ignition after installing the DZ EFI?

[jpnovak]

Yes, you can run the stock ignition.

You would see more gains by buying the MS unit, an MSD box and some injector adapters from Bitz racing. This would give you EFI and programmable ignition. Then add the ITBs when you have the cash. Best bang for the buck.

To install you remove your distributor, lock the advance and use this to trigger the EFI. The timing signal will go to the MSD and then back out through the distributor.

[Topgun63]

Apparently they are in the first stage marketing this system. I found it through this site and appears to be well engineered. Al has not answered my questions about how many have been installed to this point. Kinda hard to part with that amount of cash for an unproven system. His video is impressive and I have no doubt that he engineered a good induction system. I think this would be superior to carbs.

[al lkosmal]

topgun,
I have been traveling and accidentally jettisoned your email. plz send again and we can talk. But, that being said, while I am still having a lot of fun with this project and some others...it is clear to me that although I've put a lot of time into trying to make a DIY kit......the ECU/tuning aspects of it are still complex enough to scare quite a few people off. I have several units out there and installed...but they are all on project/race 911s (some of them are maddeningly long term)....no reports in yet...good or bad, but that should change soon I hope. I continue to improve these and post the results on my youtube channel, but the combination of the time and cost that I put into every one make this a questionable product. That, combined with the final tuning required after installation by the end user (no different than any other ECU actually, but you do need some expertize to attempt this. Not tough for those willing to spool up, but requires some time) is making it tough to proceed in the same direction. This has me considering making a significant change to the kit. I am considering offering the t'body/injectors/rails/manifold/adaptors/linkage as a kit, eliminating the electronics from the kit. I.E. offering the same type of kit that you get from PMO or the other EFI/ITB manufacturers offer. Then you are free to choose the ECU of your choice and approach the tuning in your own way.

What do you think?

regards,
Al

[al lkosmal]

PS: I'm on the road and will be back home, this weekend, so that any of you that I have not gotten back to quickly, i will resond to this weekend.

regards,
al

[Tippy]

It would also be silly to spend every last dime to my name...that's why I'm asking. Until I can afford the whole 9 yards, can I use my stock ignition after installing the DZ EFI?

I assumed it already has a crank trigger but don't see it on the list of items. If it does come with a 36-1 crank trigger, adding Ford EDIS ignition system would only add a couple hundred bucks to the price.

[al lkosmal]

Tippy,
I use EDIS on my test stand/test mule and have supplied it to those that want it, but I do not include it in the EFI kit. (they are easy to locate and buy and i add little value there)
I always recommend to people that they install the EFI kit to a good running engine with existing ignition system and then, once they have the injection system debugged and dialed in....and only then, to move on to the programmable ignition. I like to work with one system at a time. This step by step approach will keep your head from exploding.

regards,
al

[Tippy]

Yeah, it's a very steep learning curve. Smart approach to marketing the kit.

Sigh.........one day I'll do ITB's.......

[Tippy]

Not to hijack and a bump for this cool kit, but do big cams sound mild or no "lope" at all with ITB's?

Since there isn't a common manifold for reversion below a single TB, was wondering this.

[al lkosmal]

Originally Posted by Tippy

Yeah, it's a very steep learning curve. Smart approach to marketing the kit.

Sigh.........one day I'll do ITB's.......

tippy,
really, pretty straighforward, if you take study a little and take a step by step approach to it. My kits do come allready programmed with the maps i used to tune it on my test stand. I also include a step by step guide to installation and tuning. After that it can be fine tuned on the road, on the dyno and/or auto-tuned using VEAL.

regards,
Al

[KTL]

I think if you want to remove some of the "responsibility" from the system, then yes just provide the hardware and let the end user provide the engine management system. I suspect it is very hard to custom tailor the installation to be a plug & play for buyers, since as you said the installation invariably requires final tuning to optimize the air fuel mix for the engine's configuration.

Point being is that even if every engine this kit was provided for had the same displacement, cams, compression ratio, ignition, spark plugs, etc.? There's still tuning to be done by the end user. Carbs require tuning. CIS requires tuning. Even the simplest Motronic requires tuning. Sure the Motronic is more of a "closed" system due to its chip/ECU running the show. But there's still chip tweaking that can be done to optimize the power available. Megasquirt lets you tune on the fly vs. having a dedicated E-PROM that needs re-programming every time a tune change is desired.

[al lkosmal]

Yes Kevin...well said. i am contemplating changing my kit as described above, I.E to provide a nice DIY EFI/ITB kit, ready to bolt on to your engine, like carbs, PMO EFI t'bodies, etc. and let the end user decide what ECU and method of tuning they prefer.

my original intent was to provide as turnkey a kit as possible..and i think that it comes close, but it is not viewed that way, due to the additional tuning required.

I expect that the kit, configured as described above will be accepted more readily w/o the Megasquirt included. The t'body kit is fairly straightforward and inuitive. The megasquirt is where all the end user anxiety resides. If it's not included the end user can compare my throttle bodies to others on an apples to apples price/value/feature basis. And then research and obtain the ECU of their choice or, as you say, the responsibility for the control system.

I will gladly provide complete, tested Megasquirts units as an option, but leave the tuning to the end user. I no longer think that I'm adding value there (at least not percieved) since the final tuning, in place, is still required to obtain the best state of tune.

that's just me, I could be wrong

regards,
al

thanks for the feedback.

regards,
Al

[KTL]

I think you had great intention. Problem is, that intention can give the buyer the belief that it should be plug & play or near perfect "out of the box."

I for one REALLY like your ITB EFI setup. I have it on my wish list once I get my re-rebuilt engine sorted out here. Carbs are great. But ITB EFI simplifies the carb tuning magic immensely. People just need to embrace the ECU part of it like you said.

[DUK]

Al, what kind of price are you thinking for the itb's minus ecu?

[kjchristopher]

Originally Posted by DUK

Al, what kind of price are you thinking for the itb's minus ecu?

+1 I'd like to run an AEM setup for engine management.