'87 911 Air Conditioning questions - Yes, another A/C thread!

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Corvus Corvax

Your descent into the realm of the Dunning-Kruger Effect

Had to look that one up. Wow and a big +1

Please disregard below. Field test of new computer. Sorry

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Had to look that one up. Wow and a big +1

Please disregard below. Field test of new computer. Sorry

Yes, well. It is the tech forum, and my experience has been that every published wiring diagram for every German car I have ever owned has been wrong in minor or major ways. Sometimes the only way to figure out what the actual hell is going on is getting out a multimeter and tracing the circuit. Which is fun under the dash of a small Audi sedan, let me tell you.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Please disregard below. Field test of new computer. Sorry

Bob, why post a pic of yer typical Boxster driver - youse trying to bait Matt M. into joining the thread?!?!

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Corvus Corvax

Yes, well. It is the tech forum, and my experience has been that every published wiring diagram......... Which is fun under the dash of a small Audi sedan, let me tell you.

Have an 03 1.8L Passat and had an 02 Turbo Beetle. You get used to the check engine light, failed Airbag sensors and seatbelt warnings as well as cheesy plastic parts (e.g, secondary air injection). Multi-meter a must in the every other year flurry of fixing to pass e-check.

Across 20 years of combined ownership, no real AC problems, though.

[kuehl]

Originally Posted by llangston1

I removed my bowtie vent below my dash and wonder if anyone knows of a decent remote sensor bulb type temp gauge that could be used by sticking the sensor/bulb in the bow tie hole and the gauge in the ash tray or console and viewed when necessary? The AC temp gauges I have now never want to stay in the vents unless wedged in and then they may be reading vent structure temps rather than air flow temps.

After 1/2 hour give or take the vent tubes from the evaporator outlet right up though the vents in the dash are within a few degrees of the ac air temperature.
The lower 'bow tie' vent outlet in the bulkhead (firewall) behind center console can be a few degrees cooler. But, the evaporator core will usually be lower than your vent temp because of the distance and mass between the two.

Digital thermometers tend to be more accurate than analog, however you might find an analog that's pretty close; analog units tend to be more accurate in the center of their range. If you go to a hardware store and see 25 thermometers (all the same model) in a point of sale display you'll probably find a few reading higher ambient temps and few reading lower.

For what you have in mind you need a "Digital thermometer with remote probe".
The wire on the probe to reach the evaporator core from the dash will probably have to be about 48" to make things easy. There are literally 100's of makes an models out there under $50.00. Some display just one value, some display 2 at once, some display ambient temp around the unit and some display both ambient at the unit and the remote value at the same time.








If you look on ebay you can find a 12vdc thermostat you can mount in your center console (its an ugly hack) to replace the mechanical AC thermostat you now have to control compressor cycle.

Lot's of things you can do, however the factory controls can be made to work if you understand them.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Corvus Corvax

Yes, well. It is the tech forum, and my experience has been that every published wiring diagram for every German car I have ever owned has been wrong in minor or major ways. Sometimes the only way to figure out what the actual hell is going on is getting out a multimeter and tracing the circuit. Which is fun under the dash of a small Audi sedan, let me tell you.

And with regard to 70s-80s 911s, it can be said that much of the actual wiring is "wrong" - the designers apparently did not give two ****s about adhering to electronics 101 best practices. Maybe the choads in the Porsche wiring department were in competition with the choads making decisions about what head studs to use?!?!

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Across 20 years of combined ownership, no real AC problems, though.

Yeah, having all the AC gear within three feet of the compressor really helps. And having the AC as a design goal instead of an add-on also helps. The fact that Griff actually took on this challenge is mind-boggling. And made it succeed? Just not possible.

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

And with regard to 70s-80s 911s, it can be said that much of the actual wiring is "wrong" - the designers apparently did not give two ****s about adhering to electronics 101 best practices. Maybe the choads in the Porsche wiring department were in competition with the choads making decisions about what head studs to use?!?!

Holy crap, I wasn't even talking about the design! That's bad enough. But the running changes, with so little documentation. ..

I mean, damn. I'm glad that Griff is here to help us sort out the AC part of it.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Corvus Corvax

I'm glad that Griff is here to help us sort out the AC part of it.

Remember, he's only trying to make sales, buttofcourse!!!

[RSTarga]

I have to thank Corvus Corvax for his reference to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It should come in every owners manual for anything ever made.
AND part of the oath for any government official, elected or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Remember, he's only trying to make sales, buttofcourse!!!

Yeah. That is the most laughable claim made by our resident SPAL fan aficionado.

[86 911 Targa]

My factory A/C manual is spot-on.

[kuehl]

Corvus Corvax,

With regard to the Dunning–Kruger effect, a rather bourgeois hypothesis for Cornell brats, do you suggest that:
A) Readers on the forum could fall under such a spell, or
B) A particular weasel has been infected with such, or
C) It is a character of a the unnamed moderator, or
D) It is alike Trumpitis however not chronic

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

E) All of the above . . . and then some!

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by kuehl

Corvus Corvax,

With regard to the Dunning–Kruger effect, a rather bourgeois hypothesis for Cornell brats, do you suggest that:
A) Readers on the forum could fall under such a spell, or
B) A particular weasel has been infected with such, or
C) It is a character of a the unnamed moderator, or
D) It is alike Trumpitis however not chronic

I avoid any characterization of a forum member as a small, furry omnivore, but there are persons who claim to have encyclopedic automotive air conditioning knowledge, and yet are wrong on a repeated, verifiable basis. This looks very much like the Dunning-Kruger Effect to me. I would be open to discussing an alternative explanation, because it could be that I am mistaken in my characterization.

The moderator not taking action is curious to me. Its obvious to me that this person has a personal animus toward you, and he does nothing but ruin every single AC thread in failed attempts to discredit you. What benefit is there to PP in that sort of posting? I have no idea. I'd love to get a straight answer. But that's not an example of Dunning-Kruger, IMO.

I enjoy reading about the effort people make to get this half-baked add-on to work well in a car that has a ton of greenhouse, no effective insulation, and very little frontal area to mount condensers to. I'd love to be able to do that without some self-absorbed doofus derailing every thread, spreading falsehoods and changing the subject endlessly. Even goat pr0n is preferable.

[DaveMcKenz]

Originally Posted by Corvus Corvax

I avoid any characterization of a forum member as a small, furry omnivore, but there are persons who claim to have encyclopedic automotive air conditioning knowledge, and yet are wrong on a repeated, verifiable basis. This looks very much like the Dunning-Kruger Effect to me. I would be open to discussing an alternative explanation, because it could be that I am mistaken in my characterization.

The moderator not taking action is curious to me. Its obvious to me that this person has a personal animus toward you, and he does nothing but ruin every single AC thread in failed attempts to discredit you. What benefit is there to PP in that sort of posting? I have no idea. I'd love to get a straight answer. But that's not an example of Dunning-Kruger, IMO.

I enjoy reading about the effort people make to get this half-baked add-on to work well in a car that has a ton of greenhouse, no effective insulation, and very little frontal area to mount condensers to. I'd love to be able to do that without some self-absorbed doofus derailing every thread, spreading falsehoods and changing the subject endlessly. Even goat pr0n is preferable.

Hi Corvus,
I've read more than a few AC threads myself. WWest is quite a character. People who believe everything they read on the internet, might be led down the garden path by some of his concepts. I, on the other hand think that about 70% of what he says has merit. That's just my opinion. I think the other 30% is either wrong, or not applicable, or irrelevant.
He does repeat the same ideas over and over, but I think he truly believes in what he is saying.
Charlie Griffiths has very thick skin and I don't think he takes any particular heed of WWest.
And BTW only about 70% of what I say is worthy, so WWest ain't so bad.
Good luck,
Dave

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

I, on the other hand think that about 70% of what he says has merit. That's just my opinion. I think the other 30% is either wrong, or not applicable, or irrelevant.
He does repeat the same ideas over and over, but I think he truly believes in what he is saying.
Charlie Griffiths has very thick skin and I don't think he takes any particular heed of WWest.
And BTW only about 70% of what I say is worthy, so WWest ain't so bad.
Good luck,
Dave

Dave, I agree that Wild Weasel is a great SAM suppressing concept. While true, is it applicable to the subject at hand? That's my complaint, I guess. While that 70 percent might have value, it rarely addresses the issue being discussed. To me, it stinks of a tactic to steer the thread into an area where wwest can argue opinion with Griff, not the tech issue at hand. And here we are, playing it out, FFS. Thank goodness Charlie doesn't rise to the bait.

[DaveMcKenz]

I'd advise rolling with the punches. The real information eventually rises to the surface.
Thanks,
Dave

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

I'd advise rolling with the punches. The real information eventually rises to the surface.
Thanks,
Dave

That's the honest truth. Griff gives the straight dope, a few tongue-in-cheek zingers to wwest, and everybody goes home happy.

[bourgeois911]

Originally Posted by kuehl

Corvus Corvax,

With regard to the Dunning–Kruger effect, a rather bourgeois hypothesis for Cornell brats, do you suggest that:
A) Readers on the forum could fall under such a spell, or
B) A particular weasel has been infected with such, or
C) It is a character of a the unnamed moderator, or
D) It is alike Trumpitis however not chronic

Hey, I resemble that remark!