Post your ITB Setup

[Luke M]

Originally Posted by stevesc_us

Just got my hot rod back from retuning that required replacing a faulty O2 sensor and happy to report she’s running great now! A stock 3.2 motor converted to AEM Infinity EFI with 46 PMO ITB’s and COP’s. Final dyno #’s reflect 270 HP at the crank with a really flat torque curve of ~220, which is plenty enough for me. Can’t get over how comfortable the early sport seats are BTW.

This is the same system that I'm looking to get for my 3.2.
How's it working out for you so far? Any issues to look for?

Thanks,

[fetus]

Also curious on the pro’s and cons versus stock 3.2 DME injection. Cold start? Altitude sensor, ect.

[jpgroth]

Originally Posted by al lkosmal

PS: I have been installing that small breather filter on the sump on quite a few installs and it has been working well..

What about the charcoal canister? On the above image with the MFI intake that you installed, it doesn’t look like it’s installed?

[CarreraEvo]

Hi guys
I just finished my rebuild and ITB project.
I made a separate thread with a description.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/1075307-my-2-7l-rebuild-tuning-project.html#post11060367

[sbrown.nw]

I plan on going to add one of Al's EFI ITB kits to my crank up rebuilt euro 3.2 with fly cut heads and SSIs. Unfortunately, before I can I have to sell my set of Braid BZ RSR wheels (17' x 8" & 9") that were test fit only. Anyone interested?

new Braid BZ RSR 17" x 8" & 9" rims, correct for G body cars, big discount, no tax

[jbscheff]

Josh,
The charcoal canister up front is connected. Pressurized through a fitting on the shroud and exhausts into the back (front?) of the MFI intake, just like it was designed.

[sbrown.nw]

I plan on going with one of Al's kits (Option 2, keeping the coil and firing from it using MSD for ignition and fuel control) early next year. What is the ongoing maintenance (tuning, parts, etc.) long term if I put about 3000 miles on the car every year?

[msmall215]

Originally Posted by sbrown.nw

I plan on going with one of Al's kits (Option 2, keeping the coil and firing from it using MSD for ignition and fuel control) early next year. What is the ongoing maintenance (tuning, parts, etc.) long term if I put about 3000 miles on the car every year?

I have one of Al's older kits with the Triumph throttle bodies, AEM ECU and Rasant wiring running COP ignition and it's been 99.8% maintenance free for the last 2ish years and quite a few thousand miles. Once it's dialed in, it's pretty much set it and forget. I've cleaned the air cleaners twice so far, but that's really it. Car starts pretty much like a modern day vehicle, even in cold temps (20s here in Philly at times). Can't recommend it enough.

[sbrown.nw]

I just checked with Al today about air filter choices for his kits that come with the rain hats. He said K&N filters are included in his kits (I'm going with his Option 2 Kit). Does anyone know of any paper air filter options that also fit?

TIA

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by sbrown.nw

I just checked with Al today about air filter choices for his kits that come with the rain hats. He said K&N filters are included in his kits (I'm going with his Option 2 Kit). Does anyone know of any paper air filter options that also fit?

TIA

paper filters that *can fit* the rain hats (in lieu of K&N filters)
wix 42088
ACDelco a178cw
ACDelco a178cwk
STP sa192
Fram ca192

*These filters require a few snips of the metal cage to allow them to be bent into an oval instead of a circle.

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by Clay.0

New setup because i cannot leave anything alone. Jenvey ITBs and 996 GT3 manifolds.

That's fantastic looking. Are there filters inside the screens on the manifold, or is it just the screens?i

[sbrown.nw]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

paper filters that *can fit* the rain hats (in lieu of K&N filters)
wix 42088
ACDelco a178cw
ACDelco a178cwk
STP sa192
Fram ca192

*These filters require a few snips of the metal cage to allow them to be bent into an oval instead of a circle.

Thanks Chris, great info. How many cuts and how far apart would you say? Make cuts on top and bottom? I like paper over K&N when possible.

[winders]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

That's fantastic looking. Are there filters inside the screens on the manifold, or is it just the screens?i

No filters....what about the flapper valve?

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by sbrown.nw

Thanks Chris, great info. How many cuts and how far apart would you say? Make cuts on top and bottom? I like paper over K&N when possible.

I don't recall and I've got K&Ns in my car right now, so I can't go look.
Fortunately, they're cheap enough to experiment without much risk.
Best of luck getting sorted out.

[WP0ZZZ]

Originally Posted by Clay.0

New setup because i cannot leave anything alone. Jenvey ITBs and 996 GT3 manifolds.

This looks amazing! What are the benefits/drawbacks of having plenums like those compared to straight runners?

[al lkosmal]

Originally Posted by sbrown.nw

I just checked with Al today about air filter choices for his kits that come with the rain hats. He said K&N filters are included in his kits (I'm going with his Option 2 Kit). Does anyone know of any paper air filter options that also fit?

TIA

Note: The RHD ITBs that are in my kits are direct-to-head design and do not have the Weber-like manifolds that you find on PMO's etc, This means that the spacing of the ITBs matches the spacing of the head/intake ports, not the reduced spacing of the Weber/PMO design. That means that the rainhats for the RHDs are longer than the Weber/PMO rainhats and the filters are also larger....I.E. the rainhat filter options listed above are ok for the Weber/PMO, but not the RHDs. However, the K&N filter I use is a very standard K&N size. I can provide you with the part number if you want to try to find an alternative filter. There were no off the shelf oval filters that fit the larger size, so we're using a round filter that is easily formed to the oval shape. The K&N filters do this easily...very pliable. I can't say whether the paper filters will form as easily.

regards,
al

[sbrown.nw]

I know there are a lot of very positive experiences (fan boys might be too strong of a phrase here, hahaha) of their EFI ITB installs. Has anyone every first hand or second hand (through a friend's car, etc) every had a mediocre or negative experience?

The reason why I ask is because my 1985 3.2 euro engine has really woken up lately at the about 20k miles mark after a crank up rebuild, reusing the higher compression pistons, stronger chains and fly cutting the heads (cams and other major upgrades were not done). During the 20k miles period, I did the following:

- SSIs and Monty 2 in - 1 out muffler with appropriate 3.2 euro / SSI / sport muffler Steve Wong chip (no smog on my engine with euro spec, no O2 sensor either)
- larger K&N style air filter with a pre-existing aftermarket throttle body intake tube (before rebuild, like my lightweight seats, front and rear fiberglass bumpers and deck lid)

The car also has a factory euro 85 transmission and the car revs through 1st gear quite to very quickly. In comparison, I spoke to and sold some used RSR Rota Foxes to Dan McIntee in the northern WA area recently. His latest project was a turbo charged SC which is so quick through 1st gear that he deemed it basically useless and wanted to buy my 17" Rotas to put larger diameter tires compared to factory spec so the ratio would hopefully make the gearing more appropriate to the high hp turbo platform (usually we want to reduce the ration or the rim weight here). Now, I'm not thinking that an EFI ITB kit will give me performance like Dan's turbo SC where 1st gear is deemed useless because you have to shift so quickly after initial takeoff, but I am thinking about how much more an EFI ITB setup is going to get me if my car is pulling so strong in 1st (and the other gears, of course)? People have said 15%+ hp / torque with an almost instant and flat torque curve going to an EFI ITB setup. Do you think my engine has that much left in it? I have no plans to open up the transmission and change any gears. A factory or similar (geared for aggressive street) LSD would be something I might consider.

I would be quite disappointed if pre and post EFI ITB upgrade produced similar results if there was not much left to dig out of my engine performance capabilities. I hope I am wrong and I get numbers similar to Steve's car (I know his last dyno numbers set a new high bar for a standard 3.2).

FYI, I am running 215/45ZR17 and 245/40ZR17 tires on my current 7.5" & 9" x 17" RSR Rota Foxes, which matches the factory 16" tire ratios with Fuchs.

Would like to hear your thoughts and TIA,

Scott

[merlinfe]

Scott,

Good questions. If you’re already EFI you won’t see as drastic an improvement as the CIS guys have. It would all come down to the kit you choose and more importantly who tunes the car after. After a lot of dyno time and looking at logs for adjustments for the last horsepower, you may have more than what you have now, but not much more.

Stick with what you have and spend the money driving the car and having fun.

IMHO, respectfully.

-Steve

[BLACK3.2]

Originally Posted by sbrown.nw

I know there are a lot of very positive experiences (fan boys might be too strong of a phrase here, hahaha) of their EFI ITB installs. Has anyone every first hand or second hand (through a friend's car, etc) every had a mediocre or negative experience?

The reason why I ask is because my 1985 3.2 euro engine has really woken up lately at the about 20k miles mark after a crank up rebuild, reusing the higher compression pistons, stronger chains and fly cutting the heads (cams and other major upgrades were not done). During the 20k miles period, I did the following:

- SSIs and Monty 2 in - 1 out muffler with appropriate 3.2 euro / SSI / sport muffler Steve Wong chip (no smog on my engine with euro spec, no O2 sensor either)
- larger K&N style air filter with a pre-existing aftermarket throttle body intake tube (before rebuild, like my lightweight seats, front and rear fiberglass bumpers and deck lid)

The car also has a factory euro 85 transmission and the car revs through 1st gear quite to very quickly. In comparison, I spoke to and sold some used RSR Rota Foxes to Dan McIntee in the northern WA area recently. His latest project was a turbo charged SC which is so quick through 1st gear that he deemed it basically useless and wanted to buy my 17" Rotas to put larger diameter tires compared to factory spec so the ratio would hopefully make the gearing more appropriate to the high hp turbo platform (usually we want to reduce the ration or the rim weight here). Now, I'm not thinking that an EFI ITB kit will give me performance like Dan's turbo SC where 1st gear is deemed useless because you have to shift so quickly after initial takeoff, but I am thinking about how much more an EFI ITB setup is going to get me if my car is pulling so strong in 1st (and the other gears, of course)? People have said 15%+ hp / torque with an almost instant and flat torque curve going to an EFI ITB setup. Do you think my engine has that much left in it? I have no plans to open up the transmission and change any gears. A factory or similar (geared for aggressive street) LSD would be something I might consider.

I would be quite disappointed if pre and post EFI ITB upgrade produced similar results if there was not much left to dig out of my engine performance capabilities. I hope I am wrong and I get numbers similar to Steve's car (I know his last dyno numbers set a new high bar for a standard 3.2).

FYI, I am running 215/45ZR17 and 245/40ZR17 tires on my current 7.5" & 9" x 17" RSR Rota Foxes, which matches the factory 16" tire ratios with Fuchs.

Would like to hear your thoughts and TIA,

Scott

I mean, if you’re revving through the gears faster, that means your car is faster. I would interpret that as a successful mod! That’s a good problem to have to solve.

[chrisbalich]

I'm pretty sure the AFM on Motronic has a barn-door style meter.
Assuming that's correct, replacing that with a MAF or ITBs will decrease inlet restriction and drive up power.

The real magic of ITBs is the throttle response. To my knowledge, there is no single TB system that has the snappy response of a multi-throttle intake system.

It's also worth noting that there are trade-offs.
In particular, tuning part-throttle and transients is much more complicated (and time-consuming) as much less throttle pedal input results in much more air in the engine relative to a single TB.
The difference in air volume consumed between 20% and 30% with a single TB is a lot.
With ITBs, the difference is much less.
These are functions of the increased throttle throat area when going to six throttles in lieu of one.