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That was a drive by wire development setup I photoed at Neil Bainbridge's workshop in the UK last year sometime, so unsure if carried into Production. He's rebuilding my engine and has been involved in the development of these ITBs with ATPower. My set should be received by Neil shortly. |
single 3.2 TB?
I don't want to divert this thread but would a shaftless single TB (cable actuated) design benefit a 3.2 carerra?
The individual TB set up looks great. Regards, Steve QUOTE=Lowrance10;9582075]Hi, Brian from Reno Rennsport. A customer of ours informed me that there were some posts on here regarding the Shaftless throttle design from AT that we adapted for 911 engines. Happy to answer any questions. We originally developed these for our Spec 911 cars as competition is very high in the class and small gains are of high value. But now we have been using them on street cars as well because the performance was a bit more than expected. In short we have seen improved port velocity leading to power gains starting as low as 3500 and of course top end power was much improved also. Throttle response is also greatly improved as the butterfly can be placed closer to the head and still have clean air. We are currently working with AT on a drive by wire single throttle which should be ready sometime this summer. thanks.[/QUOTE] |
Subscribed... working on one now.
Does anyone knows where I can get a half tea air filter setup? Thanks |
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Just normal tea ball split in two. You need 6 as only one side of the tea ball is usable. |
I was going to use these at one time, but some knowledgeable friends of mine mentioned that they had problems with tuning while using the real tea ball filter halves ......., that the mesh is too fine and they are very restrictive. There are some filters available that resemble the tea balls style, but are less restrictive. Your experience may vary.
regards, al |
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Looks like the hardware is 3,250 GBP / 4,160 USD.
Porsche 911 45mm Throttle Bodies (for 42mm Ported head - 102-102-00133 | Design 911 |
No idea how it'll perform, but the silver gleaming off the black looks outstanding...
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Reading older threads on the Triumph forms indicates that you can pick up 6-8% on the top end by eliminating all the airflow restrictions in the intake path. This included filing down the throttle plate shaft and knife edging the throttle plates.
It looked like a tremendous amount of work for small benefit, however on a motorcycle every bit counts. I'd like to know the optimum intake length from velocity stack to intake valve. I feel a lot of the set ups we have available leave power on the table in the low rpm band for the sake of looks and ease of install. I've tried using this site Intake Runner and Peak Torque Calculator And it spit out 18-24 inches depending on inputs given. If anyone else has a more relevant calculator please share. -Steve |
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ad25248e32.jpg
A first move in this direction I'm considering is grinding down the split plate screws. The other changes are something better done on a full race motor. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro |
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Now, if modding those triumph throttle shafts and screws gives 6-8% on a 150hp (I have no idea, just guessing) engine, if your 911 engine makes 300hp, it could be a roughly similar beneft. If your 911 engine makes 200hp, would likely be a minimal benefit - depends on what the bottleneck is, of course. Optimal intake length depends on a lot of variables (valve event timing, displacement, rpm etc), and I've only dabbled in it over the years. I'm sure some engine builders/tuners could weigh in on it with some authority. With an ITB setup like this, part of the benefit is removing the long, possibly restrictive intake of a CIS setup (again, depending on the engine). If I was building a hot rod NA engine, I would go with ITBs for a couple reasons - sound, cleaning up the engine bay, and a likely increase in power over factory manifolding. Plus, in an older car, they look more period, IMO, even if there are fuel rails and injectors poking out here and there. |
There is a great discussion on runner length, etc. on this 928 thread. May have to go back a page and read through the next several pages but worth it I think.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/961748-highwayman-bringing-the-devore-928-back-from-the-dead-45.html |
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I know there are some newer style ones out that claim they aren't restrictive, but I haven't seen anything empirical or scientific to prove it. When you work so hard to make power on a 911, then kill of some hp just to run some inadequate filters makes no sense to me. |
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Here's mine.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497598113.jpg 3.5 conversion with Nikkies. SDS ECU Twin plugged Home brew manifold for the Triumph TBs Lots of time and money spent but love every minute of it. |
Bored tonight so I pulled together a bunch of pics of my ITB journey for your viewing pleasure :)
ITBs are from a Triumph Daytona 675 on home-built intake runners. Engine is a 3.6 with 12 Toyota COP ignition and MS3X. And yes, it flies! I bought the ITBs new on eBay for $100 each and spent maybe another $300 for various materials and the filters. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497710989.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497710989.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497710989.JPG http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711049.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711049.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711049.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711049.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711049.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711049.jpg |
A few more pics ...
Fuel rail is standard 3.2 part. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711491.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711491.jpg The oval shape of the TBs below the butterfly was opened out to the same diameter as the buterfly (44mm). http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711491.jpg Injector ports in TBs were tapped M12 and plugged with short grub screws. One set of vacuum ports are brought together at a manifold to supply brake vacuum and a second set are used for idle control. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711491.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711491.JPG Air cleaners have been through a few iterations. I started with these in carbon fibre but they weren't robust enough for my liking and were too close to the engine cover. I tried six foam type socks but kept blowing them to bits or melting them due to backfiring during initial tuning problems. Current arrangement is with top and bottom aluminium plates. Small rain shields are fixed to the underside of the engine cover to deflect rain water. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711491.JPG http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711491.jpg Throttle linkage is two cables connected to a modified adjustable bell crank. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497711491.jpg |
2.8L built on an early sand cast aluminum case with PMO throttle bodies and controlled by MoTeC. I backdated as much as I could to make it appear period correct.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497876789.JPG http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497876789.JPG http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1497876789.jpg |
beauty Chris....and that dyno run is excellent........nice power and flat torque curve.
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Not much discussion with regard to;
what size ITB, w/what cam, compression ratio what size engine.. Anyone care to share details? |
Nice 2.8. Can you tell us what cams and port sizes you went with?
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subscribed
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https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4057/...6dac7b6b_h.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4240/...efa53fd6_h.jpg Mines nearly done, wiring, filters and plumbing to go. 1979 Big port 3.0 Triumph Street Triple 675 Throttles x 2 Custom adapters to adapt to the heads 964 Fuel rails Link G4 Ecu 964 Cams etc etc |
subscribed!
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Triumph setup, running for a few years now.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...psy8lpbsk1.jpg http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...psvqfgvuez.jpg http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ps5o2xry01.jpg |
Clay.o
Wow....just wow |
77 Carrera 3.0 motor.. rebuilt completely to stock.
Stock headers and muffler. Running Aem Infinity kit from Rasant with a LOT of help and advice from Al Kosmal. ITBs are from RHD Engineering here in Australia... RHD Engineering | Porsche Bolt on ITB Kit https://i.imgur.com/vXd8L8e.jpg https://i.imgur.com/QdZG5iL.jpg https://i.imgur.com/LpjV0Av.jpg https://i.imgur.com/kaexapt.jpg |
Jenvey/Rothsport ITB
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EFI based on Factory MFI stacks and throttle bodies. This is a hot rod 2.8.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533070544.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533070572.jpg |
Built by Al Kosmal, running PMOs, new cams and Rasant AEM.
Just over 200hp to the wheels. And, one of the super, super rare upside down Dynos. Only available in Canada. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533072282.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533072560.jpg |
Wow Clay.O is that an original widebody? Looks great, really makes me want a turbo body :(
My understanding is that the conversion is like have the cost of the car. :O |
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533072893.JPG
Stock 3.0 110K miles 46mm PMO SSI M&K 2into1 roughly 180CHP per butt dyno, but it sounds fun, Porsche 3.0, not made for making power. ;) I LOVE!!! my Porsche but the idea of spending 10K+ for a nice 3.2ss that makes less power than a Minivan just hurts my heart. :D |
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Here is my 2.7 - 1977
Hi guys
Just my 2 cents on this thread - a 1977 fully rebuilt 2.7 - new Mahle cyls, JE 10,1:1 pistons, DC-20 cam, Triumph ITB, megasquirt2 running fuel and ignition 36-1 trigger/VE, wasted spark, coils from a VW VR6. SSI headers and a sports exhaust from DANSK. The air intakes is modified KN from our host here... the adapter plates etc didnt really fit. Thats pretty much it. It has an outstanding driveability and performance - and as the graph shows lots of midrange torque. It is really strong. Lots of this is custom built and it took some time to source materials and make parts. Let me know what you think .-) Best from Sørenhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533127108.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533127134.JPG http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533127134.JPG http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533127134.JPG http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533127134.JPG http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533127134.JPG http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533127134.JPG |
Finally running.
2.8 on 7r mag case twin plug coil in plugs Rasant crank and cam triggers full sequential AEM Infinity EFI 10.6:1 92mm JE pistons DC65 cam Ti valve retainers higher lift springs 39mm intake, 38mm exhaust ports Carrillo rods 964 oil pump Triumph throttle bodies full Dansk headers/RSR exhaust Sachs aluminum pressure plate revs like a light switch :D http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1533128197.jpg |
I have a couple sets of Speed Triple ITBs available if anyone is interested.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/1003843-triumph-speed-triple-itbs-sale.html#post10127445 regards, al Al Kosmal the x-faktory koz@x-faktory.com RGruppe #669 www.x-faktory.com |
@jimtweet earns the cleanest engine bay award!
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