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No quote function today?

From unclebilly
"I had a good 3.2 and the stock 2.7 in my car when I was racing it. I went through a similar conundrum. I did a top end build on my 2.7. The formula was 9.5:1 JE pistons shimmed to 9.8:1, DC40 (Mod S) cams, early exhaust, recurved distributor to RS spec (easier and cheaper to do with Edis and I can give you the table from a subsequent build), ported heads to 36mm like a 2.7RS, Weber Carbs with 34mm chokes (I also have 36mm), PMO manifolds. This dynoed at 215 at the wheels and would do better with the 36mm chokes. Also I have the 7300 rpm rev limiter."

This has not been my experience. My new 3,0 with JD cams and JE pistons revs just as quick as my old SS2,5 did and it had a T crank. I am no longer considering a lightened flywheel in fact. Plus I did not have to port the heads or do any case work. Easy 250HP with cams, pistons and carbs.

In a perfect world a 2,8 or 2,9 with twin plugs and MFI or EFI on a mag case would be my first choice. But I can and did get comparable HP for less $. YMMV.

Is it just me when I click on "quote" nothing happens?
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Last edited by Trackrash; 02-11-2018 at 02:50 PM..
Old 02-11-2018, 02:48 PM
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Trackrash, quote isnít working for me either.
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:51 PM
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Something is wrong with the site. Look at the column for “Last Post” and noticed that it hasn’t updated in 12 or so hours.
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:23 PM
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It would depend on your end goals.

If you plan on driving the crap out of the engine, I would pick the stronger 3.0 case.

If this is a valuation question, who knows ? The marketplace forum might have better insight into that.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:41 PM
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Thanks everyone for your feedback.

Based on the feedback I'm probably going to start tearing with my 3.0 to replace the headstuds. I'll check the rod bearings as suggested. If I can get away with only headstuds I'll be far ahead in terms of cost compared to the 2.7.

I'll post pics once this is all done. Thanks all!
Old 02-12-2018, 07:11 AM
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There is no debate .. never has been , 3.0 is a superior motor in every way .

Just replace the head studs and start driving.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al lkosmal View Post
The 2.7, built right, is an awesome engine and one of my faves to build into a hot rod motor. I'd stick with it.

regards,
al
That guy plays with a lot of motors. I've got to admit my 3.6 is a wonderfully sophisticated Brute however my 2.7 is just a gas gas gas.

What do I like about it? Throttle response. If my pinky toe Twitches the tachometer jumps 2,000 rpms. Needless to say I've developed a serious twitch in that pinky toe.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackrash View Post
No quote function today?

From unclebilly
"I had a good 3.2 and the stock 2.7 in my car when I was racing it. I went through a similar conundrum. I did a top end build on my 2.7. The formula was 9.5:1 JE pistons shimmed to 9.8:1, DC40 (Mod S) cams, early exhaust, recurved distributor to RS spec (easier and cheaper to do with Edis and I can give you the table from a subsequent build), ported heads to 36mm like a 2.7RS, Weber Carbs with 34mm chokes (I also have 36mm), PMO manifolds. This dynoed at 215 at the wheels and would do better with the 36mm chokes. Also I have the 7300 rpm rev limiter."

This has not been my experience. My new 3,0 with JD cams and JE pistons revs just as quick as my old SS2,5 did and it had a T crank. I am no longer considering a lightened flywheel in fact. Plus I did not have to port the heads or do any case work. Easy 250HP with cams, pistons and carbs.

In a perfect world a 2,8 or 2,9 with twin plugs and MFI or EFI on a mag case would be my first choice. But I can and did get comparable HP for less $. YMMV.

Is it just me when I click on "quote" nothing happens?
Iím not sure what your are saying? Do you doubt my post? Look at my posts from 2009 when I built this engine.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:06 PM
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Another plus for the 3.0 is the heads have larger valves that can support a lot more flow. Might outweigh the lighter 2.7 but only by a whisker....

Like 911s, you want an engine in the best condition possible.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebilly View Post
I’m not sure what your are saying? Do you doubt my post? Look at my posts from 2009 when I built this engine.
Not disputing you. Only saying I chose to go with a 3.0 due to the economy of the build.

Also, the rotating mas is a variable. My 3,0 with JE pistons, which are much lighter than the OEs, is as responsive, as I would want in a street driven motor even with a stock flywheel.

Repeating what I said, my first choice would be a mag case 2,8 or 2,9 with twin plugs, etc. However after I did the math, the 3,0 just made more sense.
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Last edited by Trackrash; 02-12-2018 at 09:57 PM..
Old 02-12-2018, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackrash View Post
Not disputing you. Only saying I chose to go with a 3.0 due to the economy of the build.

Also, the rotating mas is a variable. My 3,0 with JE pistons, which are much lighter than the OEs, is as responsive, as I would want in a street driven motor even with a stock flywheel.

Repeating what I said, my first choice would be a mag case 2,8 or 2,9 with twin plugs, etc. However after I did the math, the 3,0 just made more sense.
I donít agree with you about the rotating mass or a 3.0 being as responsive. Here is my data point, I drove my car with the 2.7 back to back with our PCA zone reps car at a HPDE I was running. His car had a 3.0 built almost identical to my 2.7 but he had electromotive and 10.5:1 JE pistons (single plugged ). The power delivery was quite different and the way his engine spun up seemed quite agricultural compared to my 2.7.
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:53 AM
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I believe the OP is on a bit of a budget considering he isn't going to split the cases to address the 100k+ miles (?) of wear on that bottom end of the 3.0L and a correct 2.7L rebuild, even to stock specifications, is not something I would approach with the word "budget" in my head... OTOH if I misinterpreted and $$ isn't an object I would build the 2.7 up from scratch with a linebore, custom crank/rods/pistons, timeserts, etc. etc. etc. and top it with ITBs and Megasquirt controls (or talk to Al Ikosmal for a custom build!) and some Rarly8 headers!
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Last edited by GaryR; 02-13-2018 at 09:33 AM..
Old 02-13-2018, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebilly View Post
The power delivery was quite different and the way his engine spun up seemed quite agricultural compared to my 2.7.
agricultural? do tell...
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryR View Post
I believe the OP is on a bit of a budget considering he isn't going to split the cases to address the 100k+ miles (?) of wear on that bottom end of the 3.0L and a correct 2.7L rebuild, even to stock specifications, is not something I would approach with the word "budget" in my head... OTOH if I misinterpreted and $$ isn't an object I would build the 2.7 up from scratch with a linebore, custom crank/rods/pistons, timeserts, etc. etc. etc. and top it with ITBs and Megasquirt controls (or talk to AL Kosemal for a custom build!) and some Rarly8 headers!

i like the way you think, but i might be slightly biased.......

regards,
al
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:50 AM
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You have to laugh, same as the old 327 vs 350 debate. and then someone else has to throw in the LS(X)

In pcar talk it is 2.7 vs 3.0 and then throw in the 3.6

If it was me, I would build both.
Old 02-13-2018, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastbay View Post
You have to laugh, same as the old 327 vs 350 debate. and then someone else has to throw in the LS(X)

In pcar talk it is 2.7 vs 3.0 and then throw in the 3.6

If it was me, I would build both.
That's how I solved this. I bought a 3.2 and when I'm done building that, I'll put it in and take the old 2.7 out and rebuild that one. 10 year plan. :-)
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:57 PM
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the 2.7 proponents seem to hang their hats on the throttle response issue, hard to tell which version of 2.7 they like so much but I'd bet that its either an MFI or carb version

Throttle repose is going to be crisper w/ any intake that consists of ITBs, MFI, carb and aftermarket ITBs fit the bill, Any single throttle body system like CIS or Motronic has too much volume to fill between the throttle valve and intake valve to ever repons as crisply.

That said you can make a 4.0 w/ as crisp a response, just use the right intake, cams, compression and tune

The one thing that you can't take away fro the 2.7 is it's light weight, per Porsche 2.7 400#, 3.0 418#

One thing I've noticed is all the PCA 2.7 racers using an al. replacement block due to this sort of thing


but that can happen to al too



This 2.7 crank ran for 20min like this, no damage to the block

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Old 02-13-2018, 02:29 PM
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Just to add my useless 2 cents......there are so few '75's that are original their value is going up up up. And if it is a street car, and will be after you are done....why wreck it with a back date? I have a '75 but when I got it someone had already ditched the 2.7, put a steel wide body on it, put an M64 3.6 in the back, let it rust in bad places, and could not get it running. She was gong to be crushed, and I am bringing her back to life, but not back to stock. She is too far gone to ever be worth much in stock trim, vs putting in as much work to build her the way I am.

My story.....I wanted a warmed up Carrera, and already owned a 25th Anniversary 3.2 Carrera (one of 240 built, 107k miles, original, and a little beat on the outside). I was seriously considering doing some reversible but typical mods....up to maybe sourcing a 3.6 and saving the stock motor "if I ever wanted to go back." I wanted it to be quicker, more fun, etc etc, and it was always going to be a street car. My friend however went looking and found my '75 on Craigs List for stupid cheap money. He wanted me to keep my Carrera stock and enjoy it as it would be worth a lot more, etc etc. So I bought the '75 as I could always sell it for p[arts for less than I was into it, if I could not get it running. I could not be happier. My 3.2 is an amazingly fun car, and wonderful stock. My '75 Rat Rod is running and a blast to drive, and VERY different from my Carrera. Both are as enjoyable as the other. The biggest diff, I don't care about my mileage at all on the '75....because it is irrelevant....and its loud and very fast, and not refined, and I can do what ever I want to it.

Long story longer.....if you are already doing all that work on your 75 (bare metal) and she is a survivor.....leave her stock, and make her immaculate. She will never be a '74RS 2.7, and as a street car it is not really that much more fun to drive a stock '75 vs what you are building. Sure it would be quicker, and louder....but not the street both are amazingly enjoyable. Different wheels, SSI's etc on a stock '75 would be a blast, and its all bolt on and reversible to stock easily. She would be worth a lot more then too, esp over time. If you REALLY still have the hot rod bug then hunt for a project car like I did if you REALLY want one. With the 3.6 in my '75 it is a BEAST not the street. Today in light rain she spins the rear tires in 1st at half throttle, and in 2nd she can if you really whack her, and thats with 255 rears. Very fun and fast as my 996T seat of the pants (and math). A warmed up 3.0 is going to be FAR LESS fast than that, and devalue the car, maybe more than a 3.6 conversion would since 3.6's cost so much more. Building a warmed up 2.7 might not be as bad as even pistons etc are reversible at rebuild time, and she is not a low milage concourse car. Again just my 2 cents. A friend here is rebuilding a 75 back to original....going to be a blast to drive on the street.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:31 PM
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You should thank your friend for talking you into that. It just goes to show the ideal number of Porsches is (current number)+ 1
Old 02-13-2018, 03:03 PM
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Thanks again for all input. Fortunately (unfortunately for some) the all steel backdate and bare metal repaint is already done. I kept it narrow body but it's already a bastard body with a 912 hood, dansk longhood latch panel and turn signal housings, 912 rear bumpers. My metal guy is great, didn't cut corners and it's hard to tell its not factory since we used factory parts.

Yes I have a budget and unless I can sell my kids and my dog, the 3.6 with ITBs will have to wait till the kids are old enough to support me. Sorry to the "restore it to original" crowd, this is my 5th 911 and 8th air cooled Porsche project and I'm tired of going stock. I'm finally building the car the way I want it and not for the next guy. If it makes you feel better, I restored my other 7 cars to stock.

Last edited by gshiwota; 02-13-2018 at 03:44 PM..
Old 02-13-2018, 03:31 PM
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