Impact Bumper vs 964

[paul_howey]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

I just tagged a few of these but the reposes are so subjective!! Ugly/pretty is all a personal preference yet the comments are thrown around as fact which might be your fact but not everyones. I never liked the accordion bumpers but leaned to live with them. I had a Countach poster on my wall but you couldn't get me to buy one.

I purchased my first 911 in 1977 a 911 E later sold it for a very nice 79 SC which proved to be very disappointing ride compared to the 911E. The E was faster and more fun all around and made some wonderful noises but had you watching your tail far more often. After that a 3.0RS WB clone. It solved my hatred for the bellows bumpers with the factory IROC bits (more similar to the 964 bumpers) and had everything over any G body I have driven up to that time with a Max Moritz built engine and RS suspension. I regretfully sold that car after 19 years of ownership but still had little over a well setup 964 IMO. I never liked the afterthought bumpers as I stated they used on the G-body cars. Looks are subjective and as many love the 993 over the 964 I find the 964 to be the most attractive of them all so we can stop using that as an argument.

From a mechanical perspective IMO the G-body cars IMO were poorly designed and built. Porsche sat on its behind for years as they made minor improvements but fixed very few of the inherent problems for well over a decade of the Gbody and some things going back to the initial 901 design. I work on Porsche's of all vintage all day everyday 5 days or more a week. Helping out at Apex Autowerks or RSR restoration working on all sorts of 911's from mechanicals to full bodywork. I do it for fun keeps me out of trouble in my retirement years and every time I tare down an SC or 3.2 I always shake my head and struggle with the mess they sold to the public for far too long. General shade tree mechanics is less complicated by design on a Gbody but once you get past that it is not as straight forward as a 964 which simplified many things.

Porsche IMO has messed up more good cars over the years. Every model has its issues and it seems when they finally get something right as I see it they go ahead and change 100% of the design causing a new set of headaches.

If you don't like the looks of the 964 buy another 911 or a prius for all I care but when the argument is about looks and limited mechanical knowledge regarding these cars not much one can say to get someone to see the light.

Funny my friend Pino at RSR Restorations restores some of the finest Air-cooled 911's. Many featured in Excellence and 000 magazine and his personal favorite to work on and favorite all around 911 is the 964. He and I both see eye to eye on this and this is from someone who has at least 10 911's being worked on in his shop at any given time.

Yo don't have to like this but to my eye the 3.8RSR is one of the best looking cars of all time and I put that up there with some great classics. I would take this over any Gbody or long nose in his shop. Although I built this car from the ground up so I am a bit biased.

Talk about a thread gone off the rails... This thread is supposed to be about 964 vs G body VALUES.

I think the topic regarding which platform you prefer based on personal preference has already been discussed at nauseam on this forum.

But if you wish to engage in that futile discussion, I’m sure there are countless threads that could benefit from posts like these in the appropriate sections.

However, it would be quite interesting if anyone would like to discuss the actual topic of this thread as I could only imagine that there may be some well informed perspectives on the subject.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by paul_howey

Talk about a thread gone off the rails... This thread is supposed to be about 964 vs G body VALUES.

I think the topic regarding which platform you prefer based on personal preference has already been discussed at nauseam on this forum.

But if you wish to engage in that futile discussion, I’m sure there are countless threads that could benefit from posts like these in the appropriate sections.

However, it would be quite interesting if anyone would like to discuss the actual topic of this thread as I could only imagine that there may be some well informed perspectives on the subject.

All these threads go off topic. The argument arose why a 964 is more or less valuable than a G-body. Part of that is preference and the other is quantity available. I didn't start down the ugly bumper path just pointed out it is a Subjective subject and as others say they prefer the one and I the other.

The same crap happens when comparing the earlier cars to the 993. The 993 lovers all point out how beautiful the 993 is compared to the earlier cars. Again a subjective comment not a fact. If you want to get down to why there is a disparity in values it is in the product itself. If you allow looks to be the only influence then it is open and shut based on your preference but if you compare abilities and features it can be broken down.

The 964 took the Gbody to the next level while still retaining quite a bit of the old 911's charm and experience with minimal cosmetic changes. The covering of the impact bumpers vs using exposed aluminum was long overdue and although some find it ugly if you line them up side by side a 964's lines are more similar to the early long nose cars vs the G-body's and don't have those god awful rubber bumpers hanging off the back end. You can like or dislike the bumpers but there is so much that the 964 offers which is an improvement over the earlier cars without loosing that trailing arm air-cooled experience. In order to improve handling and keep up with the times Porsche had to get off their behinds and make a full change to the rather antiquated tub. There are always pros and cons to changes, stiffening and adding improved safety did have its cons such as added weight although they compensated for this by increasing displacement. Bigger brakes and ABS are a plus IMO, but again add more weight. I drove G-body's for decades and after a while behind the wheel of a 964 I found I prefer them over any of the G-bodied 911's I owned prior including the 3.0RS clone which was an amazing machine.

The availability of the 964 is probably the biggest factor. Very few were made and of those unlike the earlier cars there were now multiple versions to chose from So for the US market only 5106 coupes were imported and of those you had a standard C2 version which could be optioned with a 5 speed G50 or a tiptronic transmission. Or you could opt for the new C4 AWD version. I Personally prefer the C2 5 Speed. There are very few available so my cars are mostly C4's converted to C2's which IMO is a better combination. This leaves the Electro hydraulic braking system which the standard C2 does not have unless in the rare Cup or RS versions.

I would guess if Walter Röhrl chose the 964 as his car of choice and owns a 3.6RS it had to make an impression on him. The 964 platform can be tweaked or tuned to do more than any Gbody and in stock form is limited but has endless possibilities with upgrades from later cars that can easily be bolted to a 964 that would take considerable modifications and expense to do on a Gbody or earlier car and usually not deliver 100% of the upgrade.

IMO the 964 will go down as the 911 to own and being so few remaining I don't see how prices will ever fall since so many want them.

[Macroni]

Cobalt..... deep breath..... we understand.

[Matt Monson]

Thread needs help.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo-UKCxCglg&feature=youtu.be

[Macroni]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-porsche-911-carrera-7/

$140,000...... not bad.

[Nick Triesch]

I remember 35-40 years ago the Porsche buying guides said to stay away from the mid year cars because of engine problems and other stuff. Then the 964 got a bad rap because of its huge bumper s. Then the 996 came along and was hated for its Honda interior and Boxster headlights and the terrible IMS problem. But now all of these cars are now forgiven. The reason? Simply because they are now worth a ton of money. Money fixes everything. I remember years ago a 356 needs to have the original motor and transmission. But now that they are worth tens of thousands that no longer matters. All is forgiven.

[911heaven]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

I remember 35-40 years ago the Porsche buying guides said to stay away from the mid year cars because of engine problems and other stuff. Then the 964 got a bad rap because of its huge bumper s. Then the 996 came along and was hated for its Honda interior and Boxster headlights and the terrible IMS problem. But now all of these cars are now forgiven. The reason? Simply because they are now worth a ton of money. Money fixes everything. I remember years ago a 356 needs to have the original motor and transmission. But now that they are worth tens of thousands that no longer matters. All is forgiven.

Tell me, when they gonna forgive the cabs?

[hitch911]

The 1964 Porsche 901 Cabriolet prototype sold for 649,600 euros. About 790,000 bucks. The M491 cabs and speedsters seem to be cooking along too which might bolster us lowly, narrow body cab owners price wise.

[Ralph3.]

Buy what you like and enjoy it, who cares about others opinions. Opinions are like...

[BLACK3.2]

Originally Posted by Ralph3.

Buy what you like and enjoy it, who cares about others opinions. Opinions are like...

But you can’t liquidate your assh*le to put a down payment on a house

[matt930s]

Ronnie?

Originally Posted by BLACK3.2

But you can’t liquidate your assh*le to put a down payment on a house

[Nick Triesch]

911 owners are coupe people for the most part. So, no to cabs. But they are charming for a spin in the country with a picnic basket.

[Ralph3.]

Originally Posted by BLACK3.2

But you can’t liquidate your assh*le to put a down payment on a house

Perhaps you should look at other investments.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by BLACK3.2

But you can’t liquidate your assh*le to put a down payment on a house

Ever had bad Mexican food?

[911heaven]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

911 owners are coupe people for the most part. So, no to cabs. But they are charming for a spin in the country with a picnic basket.

Yes maybe for the most part. I like what Ruf did with coupes, cabs, slantnose and even targa though I haven't seen many. They didn't discriminate as you do. Charming for a picnic in the country?? I will have been there and home already in a Ruf cab before you even arrive in your coupe at the picnic. Good luck finding any beef on the platter. I will have already eaten it all.

[dwelle]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Ever had bad Mexican food?

ha!...

[Nick Triesch]

It seems that some folks are missing a sense of humor. People have been joking about cabs, 964’s and targa’s for years. People in my neighborhood kid about my 85 coupe all the time calling it a VW bug when I drive by. In fact, folks have been making fun of my P cars for 40 years. My 911 does look like a squished bug but with smaller bumpers. Ha!

[matt930s]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Ever had bad Mexican food?

Lol

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

It seems that some folks are missing a sense of humor. People have been joking about cabs, 964’s and targa’s for years. People in my neighborhood kid about my 85 coupe all the time calling it a VW bug when I drive by. In fact, folks have been making fun of my P cars for 40 years. My 911 does look like a squished bug but with smaller bumpers. Ha!

Only one person really. Don’t teuu it e him too seriously.

[911heaven]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

It seems that some folks are missing a sense of humor. People have been joking about cabs, 964’s and targa’s for years. People in my neighborhood kid about my 85 coupe all the time calling it a VW bug when I drive by. In fact, folks have been making fun of my P cars for 40 years. My 911 does look like a squished bug but with smaller bumpers. Ha!

No, I did get the joke. I responded also in humor, but you didn't get mine. All forgiven due to market and money? No forgiveness for cabs? Charming picnic in the country was my joke too! Then M2 had to busy body around, the JDM hoser and FOMO of anyone's conversation. I think he still wants to grapple, or maybe he wants to tangle? The other day he told me to get a room! I'm still open to either.