$$Going once going twice$$

[}{arlequin]

first, a replacement rear valence does not prohibit the car from still being an rs (if it turns out to be). wouldn't stop me from buying the car. maybe a bit negotiable on the final price, but it's just a bumper after all... there are places that have the real ones and i'd go there for a replacement if i was getting that picky

same thing goes for the brakes and sways. if they are better than what the car came with, sure- i'll take 'em. later i can roam the classifieds for the alum calipers etc...

2nd of all, has the *other* #406 car been given the same combover? can we compare the other car's numbers (pics) to this one?

[}{arlequin]

john,
wouldn't every longhood have the same specs on the font or do you think that "s" and "rs" got some different style?

[jluetjen]

Originally posted by }{arlequin
john,
wouldn't every longhood have the same specs on the font or do you think that "s" and "rs" got some different style?

That's my theory Dave. That all of the longhoods would have had the same font. Looking at the numbers, it sure looks like the font on my '69E Karman body might be different. So it may not be as simple as all of the longhoods have the same numbering spec.

[TRE Cup]

my 2 cents:
like others have said here, proving this is a thin metal car without being able to touch the car, will not be possible

Without having a expert look at the car closely up on a lift, it won't be possible to verify or deny what it is

The japanese #406 was up for sale about the time this car was on the market , at an independant dealer, in Germany. One of my friends flew to yurip to buy this yellow #406 and other cars. He called me from there to tell me how angry he was at the car having a fake vin. The dealer had nothing to offer in response to his statements
At that time i posted on early S registry "Caveat emptor" about this car AND contacted skillslot77 (e bay name) japanese broker of the white #406 for sale in Japan at the time. When I asked him about the two cars, his repsonse was how a lot of RS cognoscenti knew the german car was a poseur. He sent me pics (oh how i wish i kept them now!) of the close up on vin, dash #, and ally tag on the front . The dash # showed yellow paint where the black had rubbed thru. Skillslot77 also let me know how they had documentation on the white #406 since before it came to japan. The car had since sold to Austria (confirmed last week).

Not having seen either car in person, I can only make a best educated guess, pending further proof

The vin # is suspect on the yellow car- some careful analysis by pelicans have shown the differences. The alloy plate is not that important as some were damaged in front end accidents and they pop rivet on

The COA means nothing, you might as well use Konradshiem's book to tell you more. Sending in an application for a "Factory Certified" by mail means nothing

I have sent an e mail to skillslot77 to contact the owner of the white #406 and aprise him of the e bay car. No response yet...

hopefully more to come

[Carl Bauer]

Originally posted by jluetjen


PS: Regarding the rivited on ID plates at the front of the trunk, I noticed that in Starkey's book they show a 4 row plate from the RSR "911 460 0037", which incidentally says "Porsche AG" on it. Hmmm...

Porsche swtiched from KG to AG May or June of '73. I'm sure someone can narrow it down further. It's possible the RSR was built in the middle of 1973.

[Mr Beau]

So it seems that aside from some thinner sheet metal it seems the only other way to verify the car would be the more hidden VINs. However what's to stop someone from doing the necessary work to rework sheet metal and produces number punches. We're talking about a $150k premium afterall...

[jluetjen]

Wasn't the window glass on the RS-lightweights different then on a standard 911, as well as unobtainable nowadays???

[randywebb]

yes, Glaverbel glass - 1. does he maintain that all the glass is original? & 2. did Glaverbel have a stamp on their glass?

otherwise you'd have to be able to measure the thickness with calipers when it was out

"oh how i wish i kept them now!)"
- if they were ona computer (digital) - the Google search engine might be able to pull them up - it pulls up all sorts of deleted files from its cache if you still have that machine and had Gsearch bulid a cache; if not cache then the serach programs that are used to recover deleted files could work with some or great effort

[TRE Cup]

Mr Beau
on lightweights it would be very hard to reproduce a car accurately. The later thicker metal cars are much easier to duplicate

to expect a lightweight to remain 100% original over time is not realistic if the car was driven a lot. Rust, Accidents, racing "improvements", updating , changing from touring to lightweight trim- all hurt the value of a less than original car
The very original lightweights that are out there command top dollar because of this

[Mr Beau]

Once again, glass is something that's relatively easy to change out. Combine that with un-numbered engine cases and the situation gets even muddier...

[}{arlequin]

you just know that 10-30 years from now, whichever the real 406 is and goes on sale, the writeup will include something along the lines: "this is THE car that helped solve the famous 2006 #406 rs controversy/scam"

[TRE Cup]

randy- they were on my computer- 1 very crashed hard drive ago (inc a few weeks worth of pics for our new web site - yeah i know BACK UP !)

[trader220]

I dont think we're ever going to know for sure, and in my email exchanges with the seller he's childish and rude.

[goat]

So we need someone who knows how to tell the difference in the metal thickness to take a look at the car.
btw the underside of this car was very clean.
fenderwells included no dirt or dust.
He said he ran it on the track a week ago unless he really cleaned it up and had different tires it did not have the usual signs of going around a track.
But maybe its just me and I don't clean up my car as good as others.

[Grady Clay]

I archived the images off fleaBay in case he deletes them.

There is a 3rd series (9113601xxx) here I can look at (and take pictures!) but it won’t have thin metal.

Best,
Grady

[70SATMan]

Here's my 70 VIN matching the plate I posted earlier. All original paint in the trunk.



Looks to me like the trunk on that "RS" has seen a full repaint.

Typically the VIN was brushed with black after the original body color paint and most originals I've seen are like that. There are exceptions, such as mine.

Looking over the pics again and I've noticed a couple of other things. Prop mounted on the passenger side of the hood. Also the emergency flasher switch looks like it has the US "emergency" text and not the triangle symbol as on a proper RS.

Other things to look at. Date codes on the gas tank, wheels and spare. If original to the car they should line up with production date. I know, easily changed but, does provide more data. There is also another number I believe stamped on the underneath of the pan around the crossmember. Think I remember reading about something like that.

[kenikh]

Panel thickness can be faked. The way these cars are appreciating, it will eventually be worth it to a thief to try. What happens when you soak steel in acid? Uniform metal removal. This was done on race cars to remove weight by thinning out the panels back in the 50s and 60s.

We are seeing the day coming when these kinds of activities are going to be worth the effort of the thief. With increased profit potential the sophistication of the thief will increase. The yellow car looks like a hamfisted attempt as do the other questonable cars on the RS Registry. The real test will be when the day comes that TWO perfect cars come nose to nose and no can tell the difference. That day is coming.

[911teo]

Then expect the value of these cars to come down significantly... because really there is nothing intrinsically special abt these cars that cannot be replicated or bettered these days starting from a 911T.

As the price comes down so does the profitability and the risk/reward profile and the thieves will not bother anymore....

[jluetjen]

A couple of other questions for the guys who looked at the car:
- Did it have sun-visors?
- Was there a light for the luggage compartment?

[Carl Bauer]

You can see a sunvisor through the sunroof in this picture:



and the luggage light here: