Engine Rebuild Rich76-Style

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by krasuskyp

. . .while Ronknees does have some inexplicably bizarre fascination with "me" . . .

^^^

I sense some wishful thinking right thar!!!

Originally Posted by krasuskyp

. . . ohhhhhh a bit thick . . .

I get that comment a lot (NO, not in reference to my cranial functionality either, and shart, ya' bisch!!!)!!!!!

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Rich76_911s

I posted the question on the engine rebuild forum. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/903539-bearing-wear-question.html#post9009036

I just noticed that Steve W. posted in that thread - hopefully he adds more when you respond - talk about one of the best of the best when it comes to 911 engines.

[jwasbury]

No expert here, but both engines I tore down had "markings" of a similar sort in the bearing saddles, big ends of the rods. The outsides of the bearings had some wear markings as well.

Here is a shot of the outside of the main bearing shells from my 911 race engine. The inside of my bearings were not in as good shape as yours

[JFairman]

Looks like this one may have been made in June 1986.

[Rich76_911s]

Thanks for the pics Jacob. Good to know this isn't completely out of norm.

I'll be sure to have verden tool take a look at the case and make sure it'll be fine.

I think I'm all ready to deliver my parts to northern jersey for machine work. Cleaned a lot of the grime off of the case and have torn everything down as far as I should. Now I just have to plan a workday escapade.

Spoke with Dougherty about grinding my cams to sc profile and having the rocker arms refreshed.

Now I'll have to get my garage cleaned to operating room levels.

[Rich76_911s]

So everything went up to Verden Tool in NJ. Seriously cool nice dudes running the place.

Their conclusion was that the bearings were shuffling because the last person into the engine had put sealant on the surfaces around the through bolt holes. As circled in this photo.



I have to admit that this confuses me, because some very smart very experienced builders recommend putting sealant in this location:

You can see Henry Schmidt clearly recommends using Loctite 574 in this location.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/284737-complete-engine-sealant-thread-2.html

SO any of you that have put engines together have a vote for or against using sealant on the bearing saddle surfaces?

Other than that and some silver paint on the case and heads they thought it looked like it was in very good condition. Now it'll be a long 6-8 weeks waiting to get it all back!

[Alan L]

Well, Waynes book also calls for sealant there - loctite. So you would have to assume thousands of engines have been assembled this way. Does this mean they all have shuffled shells? I wouldn't think so. The reason I mention it is because you are trying to find a cause. I think there must be something different about your engine other than the sealant, that has caused the shuffle, and you may like to query your shop a bit more on that.
Regards
Alan

[jwasbury]

I've not put sealant on those surfaces. Factory did not put sealant there. With all respect to Wayne, Henry and all the folks who have forgotten more about 911 engines than I'll ever know, I have a hard time believing that Loctite 574 has the mechanical properties necessary to prevent any movement there. Shuffle pin if you're concerned, else leave it dry.

my opinion

[boosted79]

^ x2. I've gone back and forth on this subject in my head many times. I know for a fact that my '79 never apart engine had nothing on the webs from the factory. Then I know it has been done successfully for years by top engine builders like Henry and others. I think it boils down to what the intended use of the engine is. For a street engine I question the need unless it's a fire breathing monster build, if that's the case then I'd just shuffle pin like jwasbury says. The part that worries me is the 574 getting into the oil system. I know it's supposed to dissolve in the oil but has anyone really verified that it does? I think I'll leave the webs dry for my mild street build.

[Alan L]

I think the purpose is to act as a sealant around the thru bolts. I doubt it is there to prevent movement. But it seems a very common build technique. just checked my 2nd tear down 911 manual and it calls for 'jointing compound' on the webs also. I would guess more engines are assembled with it, than not.
Alan

[Rich76_911s]

Alan my guess is most are put together that way. It could have been a combination of things that caused my issue. Reused bearings with the sealant may have been enough to give them room to shuffle around. I don't know, just speculating.

Good to have at least a couple opinions on a matter.

I'm cleaning my cam towers and notice a fair amount of scratching on the surface the cams ride on. Is this normal? It's primarily on the bottom of the tower not on the top surface. The cams themselves looked fine and are out getting sc grind by John Dougherty.

Btw these things take a lot of time to clean. Any tricks anyone has found for cleaning these and other oily parts? I've been using a degrease solvent with nylon brushes. Would switching to mineral spirits or diesel make a big difference?

[onboost]

Originally Posted by Rich76_911s

Btw these things take a lot of time to clean. Any tricks anyone has found for cleaning these and other oily parts? I've been using a degrease solvent with nylon brushes. Would switching to mineral spirits or diesel make a big difference?

Personally I like using clean fresh kerosene.. stinks like all the be damn but loosens all the grime.

Shhhhh! no tree huggers or EPA informants here right?

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by onboost

Personally I like using clean fresh kerosene.. stinks like all the be damn but loosens all the grime.

Shhhhh! no tree huggers or EPA informants here right?

coleman fuel. works great, but flashes off a lot quicker than kerosene and is duh way more flammable.

[Rich76_911s]

So you're telling me I shouldn't be smoking and cleaning.

[Alan L]

don't think there is an easy way to clean the crap off. Elbow grease/solvents/water blaster. I use scotch brite in a few delicate spots (cam tower/head interface) with brake kleen or similar. Degreaser and wire brush on external bits, followed by water blasting.
Those scores in the cam bearing housing not flash, but may not be fatal - hopefully an engine builder who has seen plenty of this can advise.
Regards
Alan

[vascott01]

for cleaning most little parts...exactly what you mentioned above. Degreaser and old fashion elbow grease..For the case and larger parts. I used a power washer and brushes, degreaser, brake cleaner and elbow grease...Spent many many hours doing this...too many to count on my rebuild

If I were to do it all over again...I would have invested in one of these...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/850759-excellent-part-cleaner.html

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by vascott01

for cleaning most little parts...exactly what you mentioned above. Degreaser and old fashion elbow grease..For the case and larger parts. I used a power washer and brushes, degreaser, brake cleaner and elbow grease...Spent many many hours doing this...too many to count on my rebuild

If I were to do it all over again...I would have invested in one of these...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/850759-excellent-part-cleaner.html

That parts cleaner thread popped up when I was building my engine and I bought one right away. It works pretty well and saved me a lot of time scrubbing. Rich, you want me to bring it out to PA for you?

[Rich76_911s]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

That parts cleaner thread popped up when I was building my engine and I bought one right away. It works pretty well and saved me a lot of time scrubbing. Rich, you want me to bring it out to PA for you?

Jacob,

I'll certainly take you up on that offer. I've got the stuff fairly clean but there are some really small areas that are hard to reach. Also it would clean inside the oil spray bars that I can't really get into. Plus you can never get these parts too clean.

[kenikh]

Best bet is to find someone with an industrial parts washer that uses heat, solvent, agitation and spray pressure to cut the grime. Most automotive machine shops have them - the balance between cost vs. time you spend hand cleaning is up to you.

[Rich76_911s]

Thanks to Jacob, I had the assistance of a large ultrasonic cleaner. It worked pretty well at loosening everything up, and with a little added elbow grease everything came out pretty darn clean.

Had a minor setback today though. I purchased a set of early fuel lines and injectors, but the box fell apart and the -009 injectors are now rolling around a USPS warehouse somewhere. My mother was the shipper, so I really don't have any recourse. So if anyone sees a set of -009 injectors show up in their mailbox let me know, or if there are some used clean ones out there for a decent price...

Otherwise I'm in the depths of waiting on machine work to get done. Once I get the confirmation that the line bore is all good and will be ordering bearings, gaskets, etc.

Hopeing when I am done that we'll be able to keep up a little better with the younger brother.