The 'Well, I bought it' R11S Trans Failure - UPDATE!

[brentw1]

it will be interesting to see, if you look at the wear pattern it is not straight so I think
that the flex in the plate and short engagement is letting the spline twist, otherwise
I cant really see how you get the wear pattern if the two are paralell. so hopeflully
this clutch has a stiff web and the longer engagement will keep it from twisting.

[Jozef Schumann]

Originally Posted by brentw1

if you look at the wear pattern it is not straight so I think
that the flex in the plate and short engagement is letting the spline twist, otherwise
I cant really see how you get the wear pattern if the two are paralell. so hopeflully
this clutch has a stiff web and the longer engagement will keep it from twisting.

Plausible hypothesis Brent. However - how many of these machines regardless of the degree of alignment/misalignment (concentricity) on the crank/input shaft centerline ... or, perhaps those which have been re-indexed via dowel offset would/do show similar wear characteristics? Too many unknown variables in order to be conclusive.

My particular machine was very often loaded with pillion/gear on board - many times surely well beyond 225+kgs and considerably above BMW's specified maximum suggested gross limit of 450kg. To reiterate: apart from myself - my kids, their friends and others savaged this machine with utter abandon in just about every conceivable road variation dynamic - specifically with the acknowledged sinister intention of uncloaking any driveline deficiency. It could be reasonably argued, albeit non empirically - that an ideal or dimensionally as close to perfect alignment scenario as can be achieved would show similar wear under the same circumstances. I do concur however with the inference that IF any torsional related deflection is occurring at the hub/plate union this dynamic can be minimized in varying degrees to an acceptable duty cycle service life level depending on remedial route (i.e. longer shaft, clutch assembly offset, disc hub spacing, broached hub length) chosen. In any case, some degree of deflection and wear resulting thereof (a nebulous value) should be considered as normal. What we now DO know and has been established unequivocally - is the esmirspacer, at the very least - allowed my machine specifically to amass very near 65k miles before an ancillary driveline component failed. A resounding success IMO

Your, and others input on the matter is greatly appreciated Brent and I look forward to your long term assessment of the purchased "Superscheibe"


J.S.

[brentw1]

yeah lots of things to look at, not clear if some plates were less stiff or some shafts were harder.
I thought they migh have runout as well but the failed one I measured with a dial indicator
was true at the edge of the first plate, its just such a strange wear pattern
much more wear closer to the transmission, even the concenric alignment errors shouldnt
cause that unless there is lots of flex or angular alignment problems.
so you allow your kids to abuse your machinery?

[wayner]

If I can have one delivered to me soon enough I am in for one as well

Bike is currently split in half waiting, but will have to go back together very soon
I hope I can get one in time

[Gorp]

Wunderbar und vielen Dank!

Gorp

[Jozef Schumann]

S.P.P = Schumann Performance Products.

$189 w/free USPS shipping in the 48 US. Priority and worldwide is, of course additional.

I don't have an unlimited number and pricing will be going up - If you want one at this introductory offer. Private me for PayPal info.

regards.
J.S.

[justcruising]

Nice!
Do you have a view on how it might compare with the MotorWorks Clutch friction plate replacement with longer splines 'CLA33264', see https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=30&Ct=CA&SbCt=BA_15_30_CA_50
Cheers!

[Jozef Schumann]

Originally Posted by justcruising

Nice!
Do you have a view on how it might compare with the MotorWorks Clutch friction plate replacement with longer splines

Not familiar with that supplier. However, longer hub splines assure greater available input shaft engagement which goes a long way in addressing the inherent problem on some machines as proven on my machine by utilizing the esmirspacer and has been discussed in this thread:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-r1200s-tech-forum/845339-well-i-bought-r11s-trans-failure.html

started a long while ago.

Thank you for the link.

J.S.

[Moki]

Jozef,

Do you have the discs available now? I PM you earlier.

[Jozef Schumann]

Originally Posted by Moki

Jozef,

Do you have the discs available now? I PM you earlier.

Yes.

Check your PM

J.S.

[terrym]

Originally Posted by justcruising

Nice!
Do you have a view on how it might compare with the MotorWorks Clutch friction plate replacement with longer splines 'CLA33264', see https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=30&Ct=CA&SbCt=BA_15_30_CA_50
Cheers!

Ha! So about $92 plus shipping from the UK. Looks like the same disc.

[Jozef Schumann]

Originally Posted by terrym

Ha! So about $92 plus shipping from the UK. Looks like the same disc.

If it is that's quite the deal. I can assure you I'm not turning much profit on these. I know there are some questionable (china) discs out there and that could be one. I sourced mine here in the U.S. from a well known importer/supplier of BMW parts/services.

BeemerShop Ei Clutch Disc/Friction Plate 6MM LONGER SPLINE! // R1100S, R1150, & R1200C *Click for Fitment*

J.S.

[wayner]

Just pm'd

Need one for a 2001 r1150GS
Bike is split in half waiting

As soon as it's in I'm heading to Alaska

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/919321-anyone-want-ride-motorbikes-alaska-13.html

[BMWWERX]

Same product, it comes from Emerald Island products (Ei), BeemerShop and Motorworks have this part, there are no Chinese extended hub BMW clutches to be found that I have seen. Buy from who you like. Let's hope it really does help to solve the problem that started this thread.

[Jozef Schumann]

Originally Posted by BMWWERX

Same product, it comes from Emerald Island products (Ei), BeemerShop and Motorworks have this part, there are no Chinese extended hub BMW clutches to be found that I have seen. Buy from who you like. Let's hope it really does help to solve the problem that started this thread.

There is no absolute certainty extended hub discs be they spaced or splined eliminate failure. What we DO now know is on my specific machine, a spline failure occurred at 18,935 miles. Post repairs with the addition of the esmirspacer hub extender - 64,910 much-more-severe-miles had been accumulated with no recurring spline failure. I believe the facts (and there are many) as presented speak for themselves. As I mentioned, I make very, very little in profit on these discs and actually after adding the free shipping - almost not worth my time - it is more of a service to the Boxer community which prompted me to offer them. And if you reside in California you save on tax too. BeemerShop is a first rate outfit. Ted's knowledge in the field is impressive - in suspension expertise, he's pretty much peerless. I highly endorse BeemerShop and suggest Pelicans take the time to confer with Ted on their suspension needs before spending hard earned money elsewhere. Take a look at his site. Pretty impressive.

J.S.

[BMWWERX]

I understand "There is no absolute certainty extended hub discs be they spaced or splined eliminate failure" you have explained it well and there has been endless discussion about it here and elsewhere. We will do well by using this new clutch if your example is an indicator, and I think it is. As to where we choose to obtain said part, that is of course just preference.

Ted Porter and the BeemerShop is great to work with and a wealth of knowledge, I buy from him with confidence. I thought it wise to answer the question about the origin of the extended hub clutch part CLA33264. I appreciate that you are offering them and I hope they sell like crazy. Just glad it and the hub spacer option are available now to help address this design issue albeit without certainty.

[wayner]

I went for this new disc from Jozef

Im very pleased with the transaction, and happy to pay for not just the part but the solution.
I always appreciate the engineering efforts, the search for applicability and the raising awareness that goes into getting a solution into my hands.

It would have been a lot more expensive for me to try to figure this all out myself, so I rate this product as a "good deal"

Looking forward to many happy miles
Wayne

[buzzerbee]

I was all set to buy this disc, and I have no doubt it's a good part. But....I spoke at length with Ron at Bavarian Motorcycle Workshop in Salt Lake and he states it alignment problem and that there is no real fix other than part replacement when necessary. He is a BMW master mechanic and is well aware of the issue.

[wayner]

Well, since I had to replace a clutch disc anyway, this looks like a good disc

[sgoodwin]

Originally Posted by buzzerbee

I was all set to buy this disc, and I have no doubt it's a good part. But....I spoke at length with Ron at Bavarian Motorcycle Workshop in Salt Lake and he states it alignment problem and that there is no real fix other than part replacement when necessary. He is a BMW master mechanic and is well aware of the issue.

I'd say he needs to look into it further rather than just blowing it off as it appears so far to do just what it was intended to do, extend the time period it takes for them to eat each other up. It was never promoted as a cure for the factory failure to align them correctly or use of inferior metal.