The 'Well, I bought it' R11S Trans Failure - UPDATE!

[buzzerbee]

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

I'd say he needs to look into it further rather than just blowing it off as it appears so far to do just what it was intended to do, extend the time period it takes for them to eat each other up. It was never promoted as a cure for the factory failure to align them correctly or use of inferior metal.

Ron actually states the time period will be the same regardless and he has looked into it. In other words if you're going to have a failure at 30,000 miles your next failure will occur at another 30,000 miles. I am not just blowing it off but I know Ron and trust his judgement. That said I think the disc is a good product.

[Jozef Schumann]

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

I'd say he needs to look into it further rather than just blowing it off as it appears so far to do just what it was intended to do, extend the time period it takes for them to eat each other up. It was never promoted as a cure for the factory failure to align them correctly or use of inferior metal.

This....^^^

I have quite a bit more info which I'll be posting up soon, but you pretty much summed it up. I find it doubtful anyone else (in the private sector) would, or has imposed the duty cycle hardship my particular machine has been subjected to - with the specific intent to beat the heck out of the machine in search of the weakest link. Brent asked:

"so you allow your kids to abuse your machinery?"

Absolutely yes, and it's not just my kids, but other acquaintances, colleagues, and just about anyone else who has an M1 operators permit/license and needed something to ride. Heck, I wouldn't hesitate to toss any one of YOU pelicans the key. Do I value my machinery? - Very much so... I also know how frustrating it is to purchase a premium brand product whose badge/nameplate is synonymous for legendary, highly touted reliability and performance - only to be oh-so-let down by such a glaringly obvious engineering oversight. As I'd mentioned earlier - I willingly gave up my machine as a 'sacrificial lamb' so to speak, to glean information not available elsewhere. All of you folks which have been following the ongoing saga of my bike, starting with its purchase and pretty much bringing it back to showroom condition - know, and can see just how meticulous to detail I am. If someone can direct me to another thread or venue in which any of the iteration of boxers plagued with this issue have undergone such extensive long term and documented severe duty usage, please do so.

J.S.

[sgoodwin]

I wonder where "Ron" gets his information to summarily make such a statement? In every instance I know of longevity was increased with the use of the extended clutch spline, which before this had to be riveted onto a stock clutch plate. Believe who/what you want but a little more research would be advised before making such a blanket statement.

[darkonaut]

buzzerbee, I used to believe it was almost entirely misalignment, but... look at Jozef's splines!!! Gorgeous.

Nobody is saying this is a definite or permanent solution. But that's not the point! Here's the real takeaway: there is now no reason to use the OEM-sized Sachs disc, ever. If spending an extra $50-$100 on the $400 pile of parts it takes to do a routine clutch job would probably extend its life, possibly significantly, wouldn't you do it?

Interestingly, Esmir/cele0001 stopped offering his spacer this week. "It was fun, and now it is over." Or is it merely the next chapter in the never-ending story of 1100S/1150 splines...?

[wayner]

[nrpetersen]

The fact that some bikes seem to "cure" themselves of misalignment maladies makes me wonder if there is something in the assembly routine that is causing a some of this. Some bikes can wreck the splines every so many miles, and misalignment has been found in those where it has been checked, but might there be something else going on?

I been concerned that maybe the clutch disk has to be free during engine-transmission clamp-up for the alignment spool system to align properly. The L/D of those spools is so short that they just might allow them to cock in the respective bores if there is a major side/shear load (due to the clutch disk being clamped to the flywheel) during clamp-up.

I'm not a fan of the spline engagement theory. A very similar spline is used on the transmission output which sees a much higher torque loading history but no misalignment induced loading due to its configuration.

[Jozef Schumann]

Gentlemen - due to recent developments as well as key pertinent information obtained - I cannot with good conscience endorse/recommend the use of this Ei (made in China) disc. Though the Ei disc may in due time prove to be equal to, or even surpass the durability and useful service life of the O.E.M. disc retrofitted with the esmirspacer the fact is, it is not a proven product -- The esmirspaced O.E.M. disc is. In my efforts to source an extended, fully broached hub alternative - I was given erroneous information i.e. (not made in Japan - not exclusive) which I acted on without exercising the due diligence this issue deserves - and for this I take full responsibility. In doing so I offer those of you who have purchased my 'superscheibe' a couple of remedial options.

1.) A full refund (including the cost of shipping the unused unit back to me)
2.) A $90 rebate which will allow you to be the beta tester while refunding you the difference between what you paid and the new, recently (yesterday) updated price the disc is NOW being offered for by Beemershop.

Please let me know your option chosen.

Personal as well as professional etiquette coupled to solid moral principles have been my life's cornerstone which I will not breach by airing any grievances on an world-wide venue. If any of you absolutely must know the backstory (and there is one) - Feel free to PM me.

As an aside:
Being one of many gearhead, technoidian geeks within my extended family I have already put in motion the development of an 304 stainless fully broached, full length
clutch hub which will be offered fitted to new OEM (sachs) discs. They'll be in the $325 range, though of impeccable quality and manufacture. I'll keep you informed.

regards
J.S.

[brentw1]

no panic I'm going to put it in one of my bikes in a few months see if it wears the same,
odd though I thought you had run this for awhile

[Jozef Schumann]

Originally Posted by brentw1

no panic I'm going to put it in one of my bikes in a few months see if it wears the same,
odd though I thought you had run this for awhile

Not the China disc, Brent. The OEM sachs with 'esmirspacer'

BTW - yours is the first purchase I've already partially refunded - check your PP.

J.S.

[darkonaut]

I love quality goods made by magic Nipponese elves as much as the next guy. But having worked at an importer I can say many thousands (millions?) of made-in-China products are manufactured from the "right" materials and are well-made. What about doing something value-added for the Ei clutch? There must be some certification you and/or an enterprising Mandarin-speaking chap and/or a ChemE could make possible for the factory that manufactures those discs... I would be at least as interested in a $200 "Fine China" part as a $300+ tippy-top-of-the-line piece. Just my two more cents, eh.

[BMWWERX]

So the story that these were made at a reputable clutch manufacturing plant in Japan is all hog wash? What is the back story. I just returned the clutch I got from Ted Porter because of this back and forth. A bit confused now��

[tic105]

Originally Posted by BMWWERX

So the story that these were made at a reputable clutch manufacturing plant in Japan is all hog wash? What is the back story. I just returned the clutch I got from Ted Porter because of this back and forth. A bit confused now��

I was looking into these new clutch discs and I'm confused as well. The BeemerShop, on their site, and Jozef, in this thread, state that these discs are made specifically for them by a reputable manufacturer in Japan. So is the correct statement that these are made in China products SOURCED from a supplier in Japan?

I'd like to know the backstory as well.

[Milepost Racing]

Jozef, thanks for being a stand up kind of guy thru all this. Please let me know when you have your Sachs version available. I'm a firm believer in doing it once by doing it right. Spending an extra hundred or so is chump change if you know you won't have to go back there for MANY years to come or going thru the expense and hassles of a new input shaft!

[terrym]

Originally Posted by Jozef Schumann

Gentlemen - due to recent developments...

No worries, Jozef. I'm just happy you got the word out that this manufactured disc exists, replacing the disc + spacer assembly. Thinking it was made in Japan is not the reason I bought it.

[twitchy]

Jozef,
Your true character shows through in all of this. It is very clear you are trying to do the right thing.

Great!

[BMWWERX]

I agree Jozef appears to be doing the right thing here.

I bought one of these from Motorworks and my untrained eye says it IS built using the Sachs disc or a VERY close proximity, So my QUESTION persists what details arose concerning the quality of this Ei disc that has you pulling them from the market as it were. I will return this disc and use my Esmir spacer if I must but I want to learn what the problem is first.

Considering the long and sorted problem surrounding the input shaft/clutch hub failures with our bikes we need to stay on top of this topic and keep the REAL facts in tact as best as we can!

[v.t.]

Originally Posted by terrym

No worries, Jozef. I'm just happy you got the word out that this manufactured disc exists, replacing the disc + spacer assembly. Thinking it was made in Japan is not the reason I bought it.

x 2, Thank you, I am very happy with the disc as is, no reason for a refund or rebate, Its great that you are helping to keep these bikes on the road. Its much appreciated.