Looking for some ideas - daughter refuses to do school work

[gacook]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Sounds to me like the issue goes deeper than "taking away her iphone" will solve.

Dyslexia, hearing issues, other learning disabilities that may not be outwardly obvious commonly result in this type of persistent behaviour.

Many here who are offering strong arm advice would also advocate that college is not for everyone and what's wrong with a trade?

Why can't the same philosophy apply to High School?

Have you tried giving her the option of blowing off school?

As in OK, you don't have to go but what is it that you want to do instead? And "nothing" is not an answer, though it may be a clue.

Leave it up to her, she goes to school or she gets a job, learns a trade.

I do believe, if you haven't already, a complete medical work up is in order here.

This could be a chemical or hormonal imbalance.

I feel like there is a lot more going on than maybe she is even aware of. She feels a certain way and may not know why.

This was my first thought, too, even though I'm pretty traditional and agree with the strongarm tactics, as well...

In today's less than desirable education system, many kids get pushed through who actually need extra help. Dyslexia, etc. are often overlooked and kids are embarrassed to talk about it. Inject them into a school system that is designed to just flow kids through it, and we end up with hundreds of thousands of "educated" adults who can't even read.

I'd start there--get her tested for a few things; take the caring parent routine and make sure she's ok. After that, if she checks out as no problems, I'd be strong arming the hell out of her.*

*I have a daughter who was/is similar, but her issue was a bit of ADHD and a lot of general apathy. Lots of drama and I called her on it--often. Trying to get her straight and to realize the world doesn't care about her drama. Long story short, of my 3 kids with my ex-wife, she has chosen not to have much of a relationship with me. So, are you willing to damage your relationship with your kid in order to make them "more successful" in life? Tough question, but my view as a parent has always been "If my kids hate me but do well in life, I did my job." Sometimes, being a parent really sucks.

[rfuerst911sc]

Is there any chance that something has happened or is happening at school that is causing this behavior ? Is she being bullied ? Sexually harrassed ? Rebellion is part of being a teenager but her behavior is beyond normal in my uneducated opinion .

Sit down with her at the dinner table with your wife and have as honest of a discussion as you can . Try to maintain composure but honest emotion is ok . Yes there will be tears but brutal honesty is needed . Tell her you love her and support her but for the next three years ( high school ) at a minimum is mandatory with no exceptions .

There has to be a penalty for non-compliance , what that penalty is I am not sure . Have you or your wife asked for help from professionals outside of school ? Maybe a military style school is needed ? You are in a very tough situation and your runway to get it corrected is short .

I wish you and your wife the best , in the end I hope you get the outcome you are looking for . Sadly sometimes good parents have bad children no matter what is done or said .

[jcommin]

I would reach out to the school consular to get strategies. If school can't/won't help, get professional help.
There is something going on - what you don't want to do is ignore it because this could get worse and then when she turns 18, she is an adult and your options become fewer.

I have (2) sons who both had issues for different reasons. My oldest was the worst - oppositionaly defiant from the 5th grade. He was placed in a therapeutic school in the 7th, 8th and freshman yr in HS before he was mainstreamed back into the neighborhood school. I can't begin to tell you what my wife and I went thru.

My youngest was a different story - an A+ International Baccalaureate student that went to straight F's in high school. He was placed in a military academy where he was thrown out. He was finally sent to the Utah dessert, an Outward bound type program (one of the saddest days of my life) where he spent 3-4 months. We placed him in a small private school where he graduated HS early and later,graduated college, cum laude.

It took work, help from schools, doctors and educational professionals and money. It took a toll on the family and marriage

I'm not saying your situation is similar to mine but- don't take this lightly. I hope it is just a phase for you.

[myamoto1]

Originally Posted by masraum

^^ this ^^ is what I'm thinking.

You both are channeling the same thoughts we are. Her brother has dyslexia and a few other visual processing challenges and was tested and diagnosed. We went through a lot of special tutoring to help him. Our daughter hasn't shown any of the same signs as him, but my wife and I were talking today about getting her tested, since we've tried just about every other avenue.

Since this has been part of her "personality" for as long as either of us can remember, we've tried the counselor route 4 times, at different ages, with no underlying issues brought to light or real progress made. It's super frustrating to feel this defeated, so I can't even imagine what she's got to be dealing with, to make her this upset around school.

To the question about her money, it's saved from birthdays, holidays and the occasional odd chore here and there for neighbors or grandparents.

[porsche930dude]

School was alot easier when we were there. I was never into it but i did enough to get by so i could get out as soon as possible with the least amount of work. The last two years of high school were the best for me because i went to vocational school for half a day doing masonry and carpentry. Loved it. I had only 2 or 3 real classes and they were not hard. Probably because i was happy.

[rusnak]

A lot of smart, but apathetic kids with some sort of self-pity end up working for the carnival. I know, because I employ them for 3 months of the year. I deal a lot with them in fact, almost every day. They end up living on the road in a bunkhouse or trailer. They get all the freedom they want, and live off of unemployment from November through March.

I'm NOT SAYin that all kids who don't like school will end up that way. So it's not "strong-arm" tactics. It's compassionate to let her know what she's going to have to get used to. It's just letting her get prepared to live without real running water a lot of the time. And it's OK. Everyone chooses their own path. Your grandkids will probably be conceived under a Gravitron or in a van.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

From what little I have read, I would hold off on the learning disabilities for the short term.

Dyslexia, hearing issues, etc.. would seem to be manifested in day to day work. She could not pull off 80's-90's with larger learning issues. Our daughter has dyslexia. It is evident. I would hold off on a lot of medical workups at this point. It could backfire, and either hurt the child psychologically, or be used by a manipulative child to further empower them. I see this in children I treat at the clinic. I'm not saying ignore the potential for problems, but I would focus on something else first-

Based on everything I have read here, I would recommend husband and wife discuss what their goals are and decide where they agree, and start from there. If you disagree on 90% of things, focus on the 10% where you agree, and stand united.

Often, in our clinic, I see the children as the result of their parents. Often, the parents are screwing up bigtime, and they are unaware of it, and those shortcomings manifest themselves in the children's behavior. I'm guilty of this as anyone.
One of my favorite shows is "dog whisperer" Often on that show, it's not the dog that's screwed up, it's 99% of the time, the dog owner, doing something inadvertently that causes the dog's behavior. I'm not advocating kids are dogs, but, go watch a season of dog whisperer to get a sense of how family dynamics can affect the dog. Cesar himself changed his opening line to "I rehabilitate dogs- I train humans"- or something like that.

Inconsistency and inadvertent enabling is potentially a part of the problem I see here. It is an issue in our family (Im not trying to be critical of anyone) but truthfully, it seems to be playing out in these passages.

If her behavior continues to be a problem, I would recommend you send her to military school/ etc, such as what happened to you.

I would define your expectations to her, and paint military school as the endpoint if she does not get on board.

I think there are some aspects (and I am guilty of this too- I'm NOT being critical- so dont take it as such) where you might be contributing and not even realizing it. Having her away from both of you might be good for her.

It certainly helped you, and I bet it could help her, but it all starts with you and your wife being on the same page.

Good luck. (and god help me- because MY daughter is gonna be in the same boat soon! )

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Minor rights?

Take away the computer, any access to credit, and give her an Obama phone and let her know might as well get used to it.

No phone.
Extremely effective.

[dewolf]

Go for a drive in the worst neighborhood you can find. The worse the better. Explain that this is where people end up who don't care. Also explain that there are people in these hoods that would kill for her opportunities.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by fintstone

A mentor works very well for many kids. A slightly older, cool friend that is enthusiastic who can laud the benefits of school and set an example works well...if you can find them. Maybe a college kid. One good way to find the right person is by hiring the right tutor that meets those qualifications.

Read through the thread and I like this post the best.

How in the heck your kid happens to find someone they look up to and want to emulate - I don't know.

Most of the time I think it just happens.

I had great parents, teachers, and peers, but what made the most impact for me (looking back) was a kid who had his act together and most of it had zero to do with excelling in school - he just always said and acted the right way.

Can't place a high enough value on that.

Good luck!

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by Baz

Read through the thread and I like this post the best.

How in the heck your kid happens to find someone they look up to and want to emulate - I don't know.

Most of the time I think it just happens.

I had great parents, teachers, and peers, but what made the most impact for me (looking back) was a kid who had his act together and most of it had zero to do with excelling in school - he just always said and acted the right way.

Can't place a high enough value on that.

Good luck!

yeah- Fint hit is out of the park with that one. Excellent advice!

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by fintstone

A mentor works very well for many kids. A slightly older, cool friend that is enthusiastic who can laud the benefits of school and set an example works well...if you can find them. Maybe a college kid. One good way to find the right person is by hiring the right tutor that meets those qualifications.

This. You can't make anyone do anything. Especially when they know you want them to do it. Having them make the decision themselves with a very small seed that you planted is the way.


I work with kids like that at my day job. Either they are checked out and will be a drag on the system through a criminal record for the rest of their lives, or there's something else. I feel your daughter is not the first catagory. Recently i have seen a lot of younger females (freshman/sophomore) just drop from HS for as they say "depression". I couldn't imaging what is so drastic in a kid's life in this day and age.... yet, I listen and offer coping mechanisms for those kids. Most of those females are SA victims which breaks your heart.

With that said, I don't think anyone wants to go to school sophomore year. Fake friends, drama, add in the sociological aspect of covid. I wouldn't want to do it. The dance is the key. Should have to keep grades up to participate. If you don't want to go to school in person you can't do dance. As a word of advice on online school. Most kids that flunk out of in person. Will flunk out of online. Unless we're talking credit recovery high schools and those are just the worst of the worst kids.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by Eric Hahl

Some other mental issue that might be overlooked? That's all I got. Sorry to hear this bud.

This is exactly what happened to my son.

Over the space of 6 months he went from a very happy, polite, active and out going teenager to a sulky, grumpy, argumentative, lazy, increasingly clumsy, not interested in doing anything teenager

It was a gradual decline and we just didn't connect the dots as we just thought puberty was giving him a real tough time

Even his local doctor didn't connect the dots but luckily another doctor who had looked after his long running digestive problem did. She told my wife when she explained everything to take him straight to our local hospital A and E for a check up.

A brain scan showed up an abnormal growth so he was rushed straight to a bigger hospital. His condition was caught just in time and he was rushed into brain surgery the next day to clear a blocked cerebrospinal fluid drain channel.

Basically his brain juice pressure had been building up over months which was causing all his behavioral issues and clumsiness, as well as him needing glasses due to a distorted optic nerve

Looking back I feel guilty as my reaction to his problems was the tough love approach but we're very fortunate everything turned out well in the end as within a few weeks after a very brief hospital stay he was back to normal.

I wish you, your family and especially your daughter all the luck in the world with this as I know what a worrying time it must be for all of you.

[LWJ]

^^^Good save Ahab! wow.

So I asked my surly teen about this. Funny. She hates sports. She is a theater kid.

She said "Join a sports team." I called her out on this as she has never done any sports. Then she said join a club. Or Theater.

I think her point is to find something that engages your daughter in a social manner. Pretty hard to do during a pandemic.


Side note: My daughter is bright. My son was just recently diagnosed with ADD. Guess what? I was too. I suspect that my daughter with her super powered noggin masks ADD but is still impacted. Actually, I am convinced. I think she has other weird cognitive stuff too but I won't put it on the internet.


I wonder about a big work up? Granted, 15 is an AWFUL time but there can be weird stuff that manifests itself.

Damn. I wish I had an easy answer. Sorry to hear this.

[thor66]

Originally Posted by myamoto1

I know it sounds like the basic kid hates school complaint, but (maybe because I'm going through it) I feel like this is above and beyond the normal hatred towards school.

She is 15 and absolutely refuses to see any value in school. This is not a new COVID mental state, but an escalation of a pre-existing hatred towards school. Even as far back as kindergarten, she hated school. I remember multiple days of the principal literally having to chase her around the parking lot to get her back into the school. Things seemed to calm down a small bit through middle school, but it was still a struggle to get her to do her work.

Most of her friends are the types that will remind the teacher that he/she forgot to assign homework, so I don't feel like it's a "she's in with the wrong crowd" issue. We've brought her to several different counselors over the years, but she has flat out told us that she will only tell the counselor the bare minimum of what they want to hear or refuses to talk all together. Now because of minor rights protections, we can't find out from the counselor if she's making good on her threats.

As long as you're not talking about school or other responsibilities (holding her accountable), she's an awesome kid. However, we can't sit idly by as she fails school and tells us how she doesn't care if she drops out and becomes homeless. My wife and I are at a loss on what to do. Our hearts are broken for her. I feel like we've tried the normal routes, but the school will only minimally engage, counselors don't seem to have an impact and we're at our wit's end.

Maybe she is too smart for school?

A psychologist might be your next step.

[thor66]

and "take away the computer" might be the worst advice - it was the only thing that kept Bill Gates in school (up until his Fr. year of college anyway)

But what is she doing on the computer? Take away social media, maybe yes. Take away graphic design, programming - No

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by myamoto1

...she doesn't care if she drops out and becomes homeless.

A nice leisurely walk thru some schithole like this might change her mind about that. Stop and talk to some of the residents there...give her an idea of who her new friends & neighbors would be should she seriously consider this option.



Fintstone's suggestion about a mentor makes good sense. Sometimes, kids can be more readily influenced by a peer rather than by a parent or other adult. Good luck...

[DonDavis]

Yowza, wouldn't wish this on anyone. Went though the same with my now 21 yr old son hit 15ish...but worse. Every kid is different...so are solutions.

Tried tutors, bribes, rewards...all of it. No joy.

Your daughter sounds bright. Today's world of internet and social media beat the hell out of kid's self image and confidence.

Sounds like a possible confidence issue. No amount of educational bribery or coercion will work. She's in her own head and "no friggin' adult gets it". However, I'd bet the house that one (or more) of her close friends do. That's where the real worry should lie. They can, and might, convince her to do ANYTHING. Legal, immoral or otherwise.

Have her check out a Jujitsu school. I'm 100% serious. Maybe some other form of martial arts.

But, she'll fight every approach trying to push her in a direction you insist upon out of principle.

Maybe get out of your own head.

The fact you and Mom are still together is huge. Many prayers to your whole family.

Btw, a GED is just fine. It's what they do afterwards that determines their success. A very close friend was a Headhunter for several years. He saw every type of education come through his desk. The GED folks that went on to higher education had a different vibe about them. Not a negative at all. But again, it's what they do afterwards.

[MRM]

Research shows there is almost no correlation between competing homework in high school (and NONE before that) and little, if any correlation between success in high school and success in life. Some people grow up at different times. When I was in high school you could have put a gun to my head and said do your homework. I would have said “pull the trigger”. Yeah, I might have had a bit of juvenile oppositional defiant syndrome. But I grew out of it, like all kids do, and I’m none the worse for having ignored boring, irrelevant busywork homework.

The only way to get her to do homework is for her to want to do it. Fint’s idea of a mentor who makes it fun isn’t a bad idea. Letting her chose her subjects more might work. But seriously, if you completely ignore her and make her sink or swim on her own, she will turn out better than if you hound her for homework. Which, you have probably noticed, doesn’t work anyway. She can out wait you no matter what the task. She can sit out any punishment. Someday she will be older and the deadline and punishment will have passed. Let her do her own thing and figure it out on her own.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

This thread also got me thinking about how things were when I was 15. At the time, I was (still) building forts in the woods, chewing bacon fat, and converting estes model rocket engines into a semi automatic rocket assault rifle. After realizing I could not control the direction of the rocket engine without wings, I hopped on a 10 speed and rode into different zip codes. I had ambition, but no direction.


My "dream" girl at the time, (15)with no real life ambition, but direction, hopped in a 1966 mustang with some older teens, headed west(the direction), running away from home for months, stealing on the "lamb" or whatever, only to be caught half way across the country in Texas or something when the stang broke down. She was a runaway for over 6 months.

I also remember a 15 year old who broke down and ran out of the school. He was later apprehended by the state police walking down a local interstate.

Long story short, I'm still chewing bacon.
She's a surgical nurse.
He's a lawyer.