Vaccines are moving the needle...

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

1) Not left wing sources. Anything that doesn't agree with your narrative is left wing, and therefore invalid. You're on this right wing anti-everything squad, making medical issues political. Continue on with your blind hate.

2) You almost always post invalid information from non-credible sources. I'm sorry you believe that crap, but please don't pass it along as fact. It makes you look stupid.

3) Please show me the sources I refer to are terrible, other than days and weeks after the fact. I don't accept anything that comes off the top of your head. Sorry. Facts are not facts because you think so or have posted crap that you found online. Tons of it, and you've shown you don't know what's credible or not.

4) I can think for myself, thank you. I don't purport to be a medical expert, so I link to credible sources. You dismiss them all- NYT, NPR, FDC, CDC, Washington Post. When I ask you for the credible sources you use- crickets. Every time.

5) Live like a mushroom? You argue like a 6th grader. I think you're an IQ masochist.

I’m going to stand by my original comments, thanks. You can keep sucking up to those left-wing propaganda outlets.

[Steve Carlton]

Keep it political, java. Smart boy! Engage your hate.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by javadog

Someday, when you put your big boy pants on, you’ll be able to argue the merits of a discussion without having to shoot the messenger. Anything to the right of CNN or MSNBC is “right wing” to you.

[jcwade]

[javadog]

Some of you boys may wish to start taking a look at the data coming out of Europe regarding excess deaths. By excess deaths, I mean significantly greater than normal and greater than the deaths attributed to Covid.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by javadog

Some of you boys may wish to start taking a look at the data coming out of Europe regarding excess deaths. By excess deaths, I mean significantly greater than normal and greater than the deaths attributed to Covid.

That is irrefutable proof that Covid-19 death numbers have been significantly undercounted.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by speeder

That is irrefutable proof that Covid-19 death numbers have been significantly undercounted.

In this case, they are counting the Covid deaths. These are deaths from other causes, unrelated to Covid.

[MikeSid]

What conclusion are you asserting that this data from Europe supports?

[Sooner or later]

Updated Nov 2021

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Excess_mortality_-_statistics

At the end of the year 2020, approximately 550 000 additional deaths were officially recorded in the EU, compared with the average in the period 2016-2019. Considering that January and February 2020 actually had a negative balance, from March to December 2020 the excess mortality reached more than 580 000 deaths.

[javadog]

As of yet, no one has reached a conclusion. It has simply been noted and I’m sure will be investigated. The obvious possibility is that adverse reactions to the vaccinations are far more prevalent than what has been reported. It is possible that they may also increase over time with repeated vaccinations.

I bring it up here because the long-term risks associated with getting vaccinated are only beginning to be identified and explored. I happen to think that they are going to be a bigger problem than the drug companies have allowed but time will tell.

[mdj930]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

The paper seems fine. What does Subremanian say about the paper and some reports that the paper makes a case that the vaccines are ineffective?

“That conclusion is misleading and inaccurate, This paper supports vaccination as an important strategy for reducing infection and transmission, along with hand-washing, mask-wearing, and physical distancing.”

“Other research has clearly and definitively established that the vaccines significantly reduce the risk of hospitalization and mortality.”

Do you mean interpretation ?
Exactly which part?

Considering who wrote it I think it's fairly accurate.
Population and Development Studies
Department of Social and Behavioral Sciences

Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, Cambridge, MA, USA

S. V. Subramanian

Department of Social and Behavioral Sciences, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, Boston, MA, USA

S. V. Subramanian
Mike

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by mdj930

Do you mean interpretation ?
Exactly which part?

Considering who wrote it I think it's fairly accurate.
Population and Development Studies
Department of Social and Behavioral Sciences

Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, Cambridge, MA, USA

S. V. Subramanian

Department of Social and Behavioral Sciences, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, Boston, MA, USA

S. V. Subramanian
Mike

I said the paper seemed fine. It compared two one week periods. It said cases in both groups were similar within the time frame. Nothing about severety of cases. He said vaccines should be a part of an overall plan and not an end all.

I tend to agree with his take. From the paper.

The sole reliance on vaccination as a primary strategy to mitigate COVID-19 and its adverse consequences needs to be re-examined, especially considering the Delta (B.1.617.2) variant and the likelihood of future variants. Other pharmacological and non-pharmacological interventions may need to be put in place alongside increasing vaccination rates. Such course correction, especially with regards to the policy narrative, becomes paramount with emerging scientific evidence on real world effectiveness of the vaccines.

Importantly, other non-pharmacological prevention efforts (e.g., the importance of basic public health hygiene with regards to maintaining safe distance or handwashing, promoting better frequent and cheaper forms of testing) needs to be renewed in order to strike the balance of learning to live with COVID-19 in the same manner we continue to live a 100 years later with various seasonal alterations of the 1918 Influenza virus.

[pmax]

Cat’s out of the bag,

https://www.fox17online.com/news/coronavirus/ingham-county-cat...
Oct 19, 2021 · LANSING, Mich. — Officials have confirmed the first case of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 in humans, in a cat in Michigan

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by javadog

Some of you boys may wish to start taking a look at the data coming out of Europe regarding excess deaths. By excess deaths, I mean significantly greater than normal and greater than the deaths attributed to Covid.

Maybe the vaccine itself is causing complications (among the vaccinated) elsewhere that cause death ?

[javadog]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

Maybe the vaccine itself is causing complications (among the vaccinated) elsewhere that cause death ?

That is indeed the supposition.

Personally, I think it’s definitely the problem but I suppose we should wait until the researchers have their say.

[javadog]

And, elsewhere:

https://www.brighteon.com/69a14818-dbb5-4673-b7f0-030ea532ea49

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by javadog

That is indeed the supposition.

Personally, I think it’s definitely the problem but I suppose we should wait until the researchers have their say.

Will they actually be allowed to report the results that show the vaccines are at fault?

[javadog]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

Will they actually be allowed to report the results that show the vaccines are at fault?

I’m sure it will eventually come out, one way or another, whether the mainstream media chooses to report it widely is pretty doubtful. The drug companies, the CDC, and governments all over the world and most mainstream media outlets are already covering up anything negative with regards to the vaccines. The dumb half of the public is doing their part, too, and helping to fight the truth.

[speeder]

It’s all a conspiracy!! Everything.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Not if you don't fear the vaccine.

Not so much fear as basic medical principles

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

Maybe the vaccine itself is causing complications (among the vaccinated) elsewhere that cause death ?

You best be careful where you toss around anti vaxx craziness like this

I would like to know why they are so willing to ignore The Constitution to coerce people into taking the jab. It is also interesting how averse otherwise intelligent people are to critical thinking regarding this matter