training / reps

[adrian jaye]

quick question,

starting to work out again,
have started loosing a lot of weight since i've been on med's for underactive thyroid.

I dance twice/three times a week (so thats my cardio etc), my legs/butt are fine, due to dancing for over 3 years now.
I wanna work on my arm's, for strength (so I can improve some of me more fancy stuff, lifts etc -I do 50's jive and swing) also kinda like to have a nice pair of guns too !

I understand from reading that all muscle groups work together, but logically I'm thinking I want to work on my Biceps's more.

Just come outta a 3 year break up, which has got decidely messy. So nothing like attracting a bird than by looking after yourself, and making the sorry a$$ biytach you dumped make her realise what she's missing... SORRY I DIGRESS


So for size and strength, the questions are

What kinda rep's
planning 3 times a week (workout)
(all I got at the moment at home is a dumbell set)
not sure wether to go out and get a load of stuff which I might not use, you know the score )

twice a week dancing (weight/lower body/legs/cardio)

Food wise , I'm a diabetic, so have to watch my sugar levels. Am eating healthy and cooking properly. have probs with snacking due to Insulin craving, but I'm loosing weight as I said now my thyroid coupled with diet is working.

so pls any ideas appreciated

[IROC]

There is a long answer, but the short answer to this question is to use an amount of weight that will work the muscle to failure in about 8-10 reps. Failure. That will build muscle mass. Do 3 or 4 sets per muscle group. Biceps are pretty easy as there aren't that many ways to work that muscle. 10 sets of 20 reps is just wasting your time. More is not better in this case. Work the muscle to failure. Don't fart around or you're wasting your time.

[adrian jaye]

Hi mate,

ok , treat me as a newbie.wiv this, failure is so that I physically cant move them.

so say I do bicep curls for example,
I get a weigth that on the 8-10th lift it fails?
so then you say do 3 or 4 sets of 8-10 lifts.

how long do I wait between set's (i.e. for the muscle to recover) ?

sorry for what may sound like stupid questions

ta man

[Mule]

Originally Posted by IROC

There is a long answer, but the short answer to this question is to use an amount of weight that will work the muscle to failure in about 8-10 reps. Failure. That will build muscle mass. Do 3 or 4 sets per muscle group. Biceps are pretty easy as there aren't that many ways to work that muscle. 10 sets of 20 reps is just wasting your time. More is not better in this case. Work the muscle to failure. Don't fart around or you're wasting your time.

Dead smack on the money. 1000% correct. Google "Nautilus Training Bulletin."

[IROC]

Originally Posted by adrian jaye

Hi mate,

ok , treat me as a newbie.wiv this, failure is so that I physically cant move them.

so say I do bicep curls for example,
I get a weigth that on the 8-10th lift it fails?
so then you say do 3 or 4 sets of 8-10 lifts.

how long do I wait between set's (i.e. for the muscle to recover) ?

sorry for what may sound like stupid questions

ta man

Nope, you've got it. You'll have to play around with the actual amount of weight you use starting out, but if you can do physically do 12-15 reps, add more weight. If you can only do 4 or 5, take a little off. To do it right, you'll notice that you need to subtract a little weight for each set to actually make it to 8-10 reps. Don't take extended breaks between sets. Maybe 30 seconds to a minute, max.

Also, remember to try and maintain proper form as much as possible. Working the muscle to failure will encourage "cheating".

It's not an exact science. The main thing is to work the muscle to failure. That's the key.

[adrian jaye]

cool did some more reading, so thanks

now what about scedules.

I need to let the muscle rest dont I

so e.g

MON = weights arms
TUE = dance
WED = Weights arms
THURS = Dance
FRI = Dance or ARMs (depending if theres a band night)
SAT = working around the house, general fitness, gardening etc
SUN = REST

?
ta

Originally Posted by IROC

Nope, you've got it. You'll have to play around with the actual amount of weight you use starting out, but if you can do physically do 12-15 reps, add more weight. If you can only do 4 or 5, take a little off. To do it right, you'll notice that you need to subtract a little weight for each set to actually make it to 8-10 reps. Don't take extended breaks between sets. Maybe 30 seconds to a minute, max.

Also, remember to try and maintain proper form as much as possible. Working the muscle to failure will encourage "cheating".

It's not an exact science. The main thing is to work the muscle to failure. That's the key.

[IROC]

Sounds like a decent plan. Resting the muscle is just as important as working it. The rest periods are when the damage is repaired that is done during the workout. Your schedule looks fine. I would work the same muscle group no more often than every other day as a rule of thumb.

[kstar]

To add to the great advice from Mike, I would suggest that you do your 8-10 reps to failure slowly.

For push-ups and pull-ups I do each up/down motion in 2-3 seconds = 4-6 seconds total for one up, down cycle. Really stresses the muscle.

[adrian jaye]

thankxs guys
all good advice

cheers

[Mule]

Originally Posted by adrian jaye

cool did some more reading, so thanks

now what about scedules.

I need to let the muscle rest dont I

so e.g

MON = weights arms
TUE = dance
WED = Weights arms
THURS = Dance
FRI = Dance or ARMs (depending if theres a band night)
SAT = working around the house, general fitness, gardening etc
SUN = REST

?
ta

Nautilus Training Bulletin 1 will give you tons of great info on the exact concepts IROC is referring to. I believe Arthur Jones (inventor of the Nautilus machine) was the first to promote this approach.
http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/bul1toc.htm

[VincentVega]

Working the biceps is great, but dont forget about shoulders and chest. Big biceps are also known as beach muscles for good reason, they are pretty specific in their function. It's best to train the big muscles, chest, legs, shoulders and back. Your arms will get stronger in the process.

[rusnak]

within an hour after the anarobic workout (weights) try to drink some whey protein drink with as much low fat protein that you can find, such as Myoplex. Your body will use the protein to repair the torn muscle tissue, which is where you get the larger muscle from. You will soon need to buy more weights and such. I don't know if there is a sugar free Myoplex, but maybe you can just buy pure whey protein and mix it with milk, water, and a bananna for more nutrition.

[Steve Viegas]

Everyone's advice seems pretty spot on. The piece of information that I would add is simply this: If you do push-ups, pull-ups and sit-ups you will be working most of your core muscle groups. You will give yourself a fine work-out that will build:
1. Biceps (front of arm)
2. Triceps (back of arm)
3. Lats (V-shaped back)
4. pecs (chest)
5. abs (stomach which will strengthen your entire core, great for posture)

Best of luck.

[kstar]

I would also add that YouTube has some great video examples of form for and variations of pull-ups, sit-ups and push-ups! It's amazing what one can do in your own home with only a pull-up bar and some push-up handles. Speed (slow!) and form are much more important than how many you can do, IMNSHO!

I have some plastic ones like these that break down - they are light and I can travel wth them. I think these are important and will spare your wrists from possible strains; they also allow a bit more muscle range.

[carnutzzz]

I can't agree with most of this advice, sorry. Frankly, if you followed it you would be at risk for a major case of over-training resulting in joint pain/damage and slow muscular development.

Training to failure is more of an advanced technique- not for someone just starting off, and certainly not to be employed 3 days a week on the same body part as suggested! The gains from training to failure would also require an increase in calories- mostly from clean protein.

Take your time- big guns are the result of a lifestyle, not acheived quickly.

No need for fancy equipment, use your dumbells.

First 2 months:

Bicep: Start with basic standing curls, and hammer curls. Nice slow movements, focusing on form, not weight. Contract the bicep at the top.

Tricep: Close "grip" pushup, and tricep kick-backs.

3 sets of 15,12,10 of each of these exercises. Do this every 5 days. Add a little weight each time after the first few sessions.

After a couple of months you'll find that your arms are stronger, firmer, and even a little bigger. More importantly, your joints are ready for increased weight and your brain is ready for some variety.

I like compound movements like dips, pull-ups, chin-ups. Again- no fancy equipment. You'll start to use your back and shoulders for these movements while still slamming your arms. You can then use your dumbells for "finishing" movements to exhaust the arms.

Now you're ready to work to failure, but I would still only do 3 exercises at the most for each muscle group. A good mass program would construct the sets like 10,8,6 -you would fail on 6. Again, to lift for mass without the diet to match doesn't make sense. You're ripping the muscle fibers without the proper amount of protein to rebuild.

Stick to a moderate weight training program for now- you'll see the results. When you're feeling stronger and you've done your homework you can start adding protein and advance your program. Patience.

Then you can pose in front of roads named after you like I do. Ha!

[adrian jaye]

Thankxs again guys

Carnuttz, you kinda put thinks on its head now...

(Gulps)

not too sure what ta do.

allthough I understand all your points

any further input

ta guys

[mcuozzo]

Here's my two cents...

Carnuttz did not turn everything on it's head. All the advice is pretty good and can be combined.

Take carnuttz advice and do simple exercises at first and do them SLOWLY and with correct form. For example when doing standing curls, put your back against a wall. That way you can't swing your body to lift the weight. Focus on using the muscles you are training. As mentioned contract the muscle at the apex of the exercise.

Also you might not be able to lift the same body part every other day. You should wait at least a full day after any soreness subsides. In building muscle you are actually ripping your muscle and then repairing it. Repairing (as it's been mentioned) is just as important. So you might have to train your arms every 4th day. You might not be able to get into a mon, thurs, Sunday routine either, you have to be flexible and shift your workouts.

Even when doing the simple exercise work to failure. Carnuttz is again right, don't lower the weight, lower the reps. Choose a weight that causes failure at the 10-12 range on first rep, then 8-10 on the second set, and then at least 6 on the last set.

As you get more advanced, you can try and do some of the arm exercises while sitting on a ball (if you are at a gym). This also helps improve your core strength. While arm strenght is great, improving you core strength helps in any sport/athletic endeavor. My friend is a personal trainer (former competitive body builder) and while she now tries to avoid adding any mass to arms shoulders etc. she works out her core like a madman. Although she is litterally have my size, she's pretty powerful (I'd never admit that to her). And when we work out together she kicks my butt.

It sounds like you got the eating thing down pat, but make sure you get plenty of water and protein when building muscle. Too little of either and you won't build as much muscle as you want.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out!

[adrian jaye]

thankxs makes sense.

I did try carnuttz's suggestion.

didnt go to failure, as thats how I read it. but I noticed 1 arm, (my left) was considerably weaker. was struggling a bit with it.

after the workout my arms felt,.... twingy is the best word.
no pain in arms today so obviously didnt work them hard enough

tonight I'm dancing so Wed will try again and up the weights.

I understand about the protein... but just explain the water bit to me ?
also should I drink a protein drink, during or after ?

I'm quite concerned about the sugar content of the drinks, becuase of the diabetes
some I've seen though they are wey protein had quite high sugar

will try the thing with the wall... must admit I did feel towards the end I was swinging my body rather than lifting

once again many thankxs

Ade

Originally Posted by mcuozzo

Here's my two cents...

Carnuttz did not turn everything on it's head. All the advice is pretty good and can be combined.

Take carnuttz advice and do simple exercises at first and do them SLOWLY and with correct form. For example when doing standing curls, put your back against a wall. That way you can't swing your body to lift the weight. Focus on using the muscles you are training. As mentioned contract the muscle at the apex of the exercise.

Also you might not be able to lift the same body part every other day. You should wait at least a full day after any soreness subsides. In building muscle you are actually ripping your muscle and then repairing it. Repairing (as it's been mentioned) is just as important. So you might have to train your arms every 4th day. You might not be able to get into a mon, thurs, Sunday routine either, you have to be flexible and shift your workouts.

Even when doing the simple exercise work to failure. Carnuttz is again right, don't lower the weight, lower the reps. Choose a weight that causes failure at the 10-12 range on first rep, then 8-10 on the second set, and then at least 6 on the last set.

As you get more advanced, you can try and do some of the arm exercises while sitting on a ball (if you are at a gym). This also helps improve your core strength. While arm strenght is great, improving you core strength helps in any sport/athletic endeavor. My friend is a personal trainer (former competitive body builder) and while she now tries to avoid adding any mass to arms shoulders etc. she works out her core like a madman. Although she is litterally have my size, she's pretty powerful (I'd never admit that to her). And when we work out together she kicks my butt.

It sounds like you got the eating thing down pat, but make sure you get plenty of water and protein when building muscle. Too little of either and you won't build as much muscle as you want.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out!

[gchappel]

It sounds like you are talking about a major lifestyle change here- on which over the course of a year you will have spent hundreds of hours. Please do not go into this without a plan. Diet will be vital, especially with diabetes. Proper training will also be vital- or you will get all the classic signs of overtraining and quit.
If you don't know what you are doing hire a trainer- at least for a short period of time to get you started. Ask around, find a good one. They can direct you on diet- or better yet talk to a nutritionist. If you don't want to do that, at least go to the library and read- there are dozens of good books with plans, ideas and explanations. Spend the first week lifting books instead of weight, will pay off in the end. If you go into this randomly, you will not get where you want to go, at least not with efficient use of your time.
Been there, done that. Got hurt. Doing it again.
I should write a book on how weaklings like myself should train- call it pumping aluminum.
Gary

[kstar]

I stand by my advice.

No fancy equipment - you need a floor, some push up handles and a bar for pull-ups. Get some variation and technique tips from YouTube; you'll be able to tell who know what they are talking about, I hope!

I guess I didn't stress rest enough (it's critical) and it does make sense to start slowly if you have been doing -zero- strength training. But, IMO, doing reps until you can't do another is a generally accepted method to build muscle.

Perhaps diet hasn't been stressed enough. I follow the 1 gram of protein for every pound of body weight, or close to it, theory. I use 100% Whey which only uses stevia as a sweetener. I have evolved over years into a diet that I could not have done in a short period of time. No sweets, sodas and almost no bread products or processed food. Lot's of yams and other "good" carbs, fish oil, flax, borage and pumpkin oils and lean proteins. I think the diet side of it is more important than the physical activity part of it, but obviously both are important.

I also don't see where carnutzz turned everything said before on its head??? There's more than one "right" way to go and many folks have their own philosophies when it comes to diet and muscle building. Your physiology should have a lot to do with your program - good advice above about spending some time with a trainer and nutritionist and even doctor as well.

I know what works for me, but that may not work most effectively for you.

Best,