Engine Mount replacement

[myamoto1]

Hi All,

I just replaced my engine mounts last night and thought I'd ask a few questions and share some tips as well.

My new motor and tranny mounts arrived earlier this week so with tools in hand and Wayne's 101 Projects on the bench, I set to work. Seemed like a pretty straight forward swap. Did a quick skim of Wayne's book and noted that I should only attempt one side at a time so the engine mounting bar wouldn't move or drop down out of alignment.

Load everything up w/ PB Blaster, kick back and enjoy some wine and cheese, in the garage w/ the wife while the magical elixer does its work. For those that have seen my garage on PPOT, it may be messy, but it's classy

A few grunts and groans later and the mounting bolt breaks free on the passenger side. I smugly think to myself, I'll be in and out of this sucker in under 45 minutes. Last thread on the bolt releases its hold and... CRAP. Not only did the cross member move, but it left no forwarding address. It dropped about 3 inches down and 2 inches to the rear.

OK, I can handle this. I'll just jack up the engine a little. Afterall, the jack it was already under there to prevent the engine from dropping down (did I say prevent??? Hmmm, must've been mistaken). A few pumps of the handle and I'm back in business, right? Wrong. WTF!?!?! I'm lifting the car up, but the cross bar is still tucked in the bottom right corner laughing at me.

I'll show that smug little f'er who's boss - I've got a cherry picker that'll put him right back in his place. So, if you haven't ventured over to PPOT to see what my garage looks like, you may not appreciate how big of a chore it is to pull out my "awesome, I am king of the garage" cherry picker. It's now pitch black out as I roll the car out of the garage to roll the hoist around to the back of the car.

I've now been at this project for just over an hour. Wayne's book said 2 hours, plenty of time left to meet the deadline, right? I think I forgot to mention that my car is slightly lowered. Or maybe it was I just plain forgot in general. After all of my efforts to get the hoist out of the garge, the little f'er in the back right corner, unbenonst to me, is allies with the cherry picker. They now both join together in a round of mocking laughter as I try repeatedly to get the arms of the hoist to fit under the car. No matter what I do, no matter how I angle it, I'm about 2 inches short of where I need to be. This only encourages the mocking and abuse I'm forced to endure from the cross member and his new buddy the cherry picker.

At this point most previous victims, err... I mean vehicles would have endured the wrath of the Irish and whatever tool is closest. Take a deep breath and remember this is a highly tuned and precise machine of the highest degree. Heck, I have wine and cheese in the garage. F-it. Time for a beer.

On my way to grab a beer I run across my BFC (big f'n clamp). This is the mother of all c-clamps. If this doesn't work, time for a match and call to insurance... 15 minutes w/ the clamp and not only am I back in business, but I'm moving onto the diver's side mount.

If you've stuck with me this far, I'm sure you've learned the moral of the story is; A BFC is better than a BFCP (big f'n cherry picker) when it comes to changing out engine mounts.

Now onto the questions:

Were all of these trials and tribulations worth it?

Here are the old mounts (left 2) next to a new mount. I was expecting them to be in much worse shape than they are.



Question two, I bought the "sport mounts". Are the sport mounts stiffer than the stock mounts?

Thanks

[mppickett]

Great story, Josh. Seems like nothing simple ever is. I replaced my xmission and motor mounts a couple of weeks ago. The good news is that most of the rubber had cracks. One of the motor mounts was actually torn nearly in two under the big washers (guess that turbo actually does something useful, eh?). I replaced with sport mounts from our host and can claim cleaner shifts and a generally better outlook on life.

[gsmith660]

I replaced all 4 of my mounts as the ones I had were 30 years old and looked way worse than yours. Dont shoot me but mine lined right up and the install took about 45 min. to an hour. Just curious what was the problem with the cross bar was it warped?

[myamoto1]

I thought it might be warped as well, but everything looks good - at least to the eye. I'll be doing the tranny mounts tonight or tomorrow night. I'm hoping to capture some of those "cleaner shifts" mppickett was talking about. However, given the pristine condition of the original motor mounts, I'm not sure how much improvement I'll see. Maybe my tranny mounts are totally trashed. It sounds bad, but that's what I'm hoping for... we'll see.

[sailchef]

When I pull motor mounts I jack up the engine until the bolt begins to budge skyward, barely moves. this would indicate no pressure on the bolt and, at this point, should come out very easy.

I've had my motor out a few times and know exactly where tp place a small 2"X4"X4" block of wood between the motor and jack to insure perfect balance. You can actually balance a 911 engine on the end of your jack with no problem, if the jack is located precisely at the balance point. I was actually amazed the first time I did this. You were probably off just a bit and thats why the engine tilted when you released the bolt.

Experience is what you get when you don't want it.

Glad it worked out for ya. Hope the tranny bolts come out easier.

[RSTarga]

gssmith660, aren't you missing the top large washer?

[gsmith660]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

gssmith660, aren't you missing the top large washer?

Motors not in that pic took that just before I lifted the motor into the car, both washers were in when done.

[Mr.Puff]

I'm running solids. The engine dropped down a fair bit for me too .

[myamoto1]

Glad to know I'm not alone in my troubles. I haven't tackled the tranny mounts yet, but the night is still young. Need to get a few house projects done first.

Has anyone else found "normal" looking mounts, like I have? My motivating factor behind this project was better shifting. Oh well, at least I'll be able to rule the mounts out as a cause after I'm all done.

[LWJ]

Yep. I traded out my tranny mounts a month ago and the motor mounts last night. Both "looked" fine. Hard to say as my car is still on the jack stands. I am chasing the same shifting improvement jones.
BTW, I am in Portland.

Larry

[myamoto1]

sailchef - that was the technique I used for the left mount, although I used my BFC instead of the jack. I used the jack up under the engine as a precaution and the bar still dropped down when I released the clap to get the new mount in.

Anyway, I'm hoping for better luck on the tranny mounts. I ran out of time tonight, but will get to them sometime this week. Any tips or tricks you can share would be appreciated.

Larry - we should get together some time. I just joined the PCA (haven't gone to an ORPCA event yet) and am always looking to meet other Porsche people in the area.

[LWJ]

Josh,
I would love to get together. I just did the tranny mounts a little bit ago. It was a walk in the park. You should have no issues. You can't jack the motor/trans as YOU will be under the car. The only thing that I read about to take caution with is to make sure the big bolts are aligned (not cross threaded) before you start cranking on them. Total time including jacking the car shouldn't take over 35 minutes unless something is stuck.

Good luck. Fire me a PM and we can coordinate schedules. Cool car BTW!
Larry

[Mr.Puff]

What kinds of shifting problems are you guys having? If it is slop in gear then I suggest replacing the shifter/shift coupler bushings. If you have trouble finding gears then do an alignment. A big upgrade would be to switch to a Wevo or a Rennshift for the shifter and/or a Wevo shift coupler. Also try Swepco tranny fluid.

[Gunter]

With the jack supporting the weight correctly, there shouldn't be that much sagging and misalignment.
To ensure that there is no misalignment and extra stress on the transmission/engine mounts, loosen the 4 bolts that hold the crossmember to the engine mount carrier, page 101-12 in the Bentley AFTER the M12 bolts are torqued.
That way, the whole unit aligns itself without stress.
Do the same on the transmission end; keep the 4 small bolts just snug so you can move the crossmember a little to help with aligning the M12 bolts.
Use lube and don't over-torque!

[sailchef]

Originally Posted by Gunter

Do the same on the transmission end; keep the 4 small bolts just snug so you can move the crossmember a little to help with aligning the M12 bolts.
Use lube and don't over-torque!

Ditto, what Gunter said.

When you remove the tranny bolts you can use the jack in the sme way to take the load off the bolt so it will come out without a lot of stress. It's all technique. Patience helps.

[myamoto1]

Thanks for the tips guys.

Gunter, for my clarification, are you referring to losening these 4 bolts on the engine x-member?



and these 4 on the transmission x-member?



What are the torque settings for these?

Thanks!

[RWebb]

I always run the car a few miles then do that re-tightening that Gunter mentioned.

[hobieboy]

Josh,
Yes, the red circle ones in the picture for the transmission mount are the last 4 that I tighten when I reinstall the engine & transmission. I find that by first securing the real transmission mount bolts then these creates less stress (& make it easier to line up).

Going from memory, I think the torque on these are "standard" M8 nuts value which is 25Nm?

[rw7810]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

gssmith660, aren't you missing the top large washer?

I thought the same thing... leads to the age old question, does the large curved washer go on concave up or down...??

[gsmith660]

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