Help with TIP & torque converter

[LouZ]

I recently rebuilt my engine and just reinstalled it in the car.

The engine runs great but I get no action from the TIP. A lot of research shows that I installed the torque converter in the wrong sequence, bolting it to the flex plate then installing the Tip input shaft to the torque converter. When I bolted the housings together there was a "clunk" as I tightened the bolts.

Also, before I started the engine, I drained and refilled the Tip with new fluid.

The manual states to fill the Tip, start the engine and put the Tip in D. This is supposed to circulate the fluid and drop the level. I got nothing! No drop in level, no movement in any gear, and also no appreciable rpm drop when it's in gear.

Engine is now out and Tip split from casing.

The torque converter had a couple of pints of fluid pouring out of the shaft as soon as the Tip's input shaft pulled out.

My suspicion is that the torque converter and Tip shaft did not engage and the Tip's fluid pump isn't turning.

My question is how can I check if I damaged the torque converter or the Tip?

[syncroid]

I am thinking you damaged the Tiptronic transmission. When you separate the trans from the engine there is a holding tool to keep the convertor with the transmission. There are (I believe) eight small allen bolts that you remove through the starter hole. (when the starter is removed) I sure hope for your sake that I am wrong about the damaged transmission because they aren't cheap to fix.

[geolab]

you have to do it workshop manual style.
by deduction, if when dismantling the second time, the converter had a couple of pints as you say, this means that your pump is working.
A bit of history on how, what you did with the gearbox, thanks

[911Obbie]

I made a home made 9325 tool to hold the torque converter in place after I removed the 8 flywheel screws.
However, i am not able to separate the trans from bell housing on the engine to separate the tip and the engine. I have removed the 8 blots transmission bolts.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Trav

[syncroid]

Its been awhile since I have done this job. There are a couple of 8mm six point allen bolts that are pretty well hidden and hard to get to. My thinking is that you missed one or two of them. If you have removed them all, the trans should separate with little effort.

[911Obbie]

Thanks for the suggestion. I did manage to find all he bolts. 1 had to ground off.
Splitting took some gentle coaxing. The alignment dowels appear to be steel and looks like they corrode "welded" into the housing (20 years and never been apart).
Set up a rig to maximize getting the maximum moment up and down from the front of trans while applying back and forth axial movement movement. Very tempted to pry at points but remained patiently working it free.
Ditto issue getting the pulse sender out - 2 different metals, 20 mid atlantic winters and it corrode welded to the housing. Heat to he housing around the sender (not he sender!) with gentle persuasion of a rubber clamp device slowly helped give up its grip. Disassembly is as much an art as assembly!

[stevepaa]

LouZ, I think you broke the tangs in the fluid pump.


yeah , i did the same thing.


I now see this is an old post

[LouZ]

Originally Posted by stevepaa

LouZ, I think you broke the tangs in the fluid pump.


yeah , i did the same thing.


I now see this is an old post

Yea, both tangs broke off and shards went somewhere, so I got a used TIP and installed it.

Last month, I was DEing when at 115 mph it shifted from 3 to 4 when it just revved up and I just coasted( still doing 115 mph) .

Turns out that I blew out the Diffy gears on the replacement. Well the engine and tip were dropped and I cobbled together a good fluid pump from the 2nd tip, the entire Diffy from the original and just finished mounting everything to the 2nd trans case.

I will be putting the tip and engine back in within the next 2 weekends and hope that the hybrid TIP works!

You can see the gear set on RL where I posted pix last week.

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by 911Obbie

I made a home made 9325 tool to hold the torque converter in place after I removed the 8 flywheel screws.
However, i am not able to separate the trans from bell housing on the engine to separate the tip and the engine. I have removed the 8 blots transmission bolts.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Trav

Would love to know how to make this tool.
I'm about to remove a tip/engine... this thread has be concerned about the torque converter coming out of the bellhousing.. really don't want to cause damage to the trans...

[bazar01]

Here is a screen shot of the tool and the procedure for automatic transmission removal and install. The tool goes to the starter hole and holds the converter in place. It probably bolts to the converter threaded hole and mounts on the two starter bolt hole. You can make it out of a plain steel flat bar.
To me, as long as the torque converter is inserted into the transmission properly and maintained in that position during the install, and not forcing the bellhousing into the engine using the bolts, you will be fine.

[syncroid]

The special tool isn't so special. I made mine.

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by syncroid

The special tool isn't so special. I made mine.

Thanks for posting..
so I take it the head of the bolt goes inside the starter housing, and grips onto the back of the starter ring gear?

[bazar01]

I don't think the ring gear is even involved because the converter is installed on the transmission side before mating to the engine. The tool holds the converter to the transmission bell housing starter hole the way I understand it

[syncroid]

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

Thanks for posting..
so I take it the head of the bolt goes inside the starter housing, and grips onto the back of the starter ring gear?

Yes. The head of the bolt goes into the starter housing. The washers are what grabs the edge of the torque convertor to hold it in place. I ovaled out the mounting holes so that I could make sure it had a good grip on the convertor.

[bazar01]

So the tool does not bolt on to the converter but rather grabs the edge of the converter to keep it from getting disengaged from the transmission pump input. Good to know.
The tool shd be easy to make then.

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by bazar01

I don't think the ring gear is even involved because the converter is installed on the transmission side before mating to the engine. The tool holds the converter to the transmission bell housing starter hole the way I understand it

I was referring to this excerpt taken from a manual I downloaded..


Which kinda confused me.. I would have thought the ring gear is attached directly to the flex plate to crank the motor over?
I haven't pulled the engine out yet.. trying to mentally prepare myself for what to expect...

[mikedsilva]

OK, another potential silly question..
When you come to unbolt the trans from the motor, does the box detach from the torque converter housing?
Or does the TC housing detach from the engine case?

[bazar01]

Plan on dropping the engine and transmission as one assembly.
Then separate them on the ground.

To separate, you have to unbolt the converter from the flexplate thru the starter hole. (step 2 in your diagram). 8, M6 x 16 bolts.
Secure the converter using the special tool.
Unbolt the transmission box (bellhousing) from the engine.
Separate the engine from the transmission.
Leave the special tool attached when you put the transmission aside unless you have to perform some work on the transmission.

During the engine transmission assembly, install the special tool again.
This will keep the converter from falling out from the transmission pump to prevent damage if it falls out of place.

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by bazar01

Plan on dropping the engine and transmission as one assembly.
Then separate them on the ground.

To separate, you have to unbolt the converter from the flexplate thru the starter hole. (step 2 in your diagram). 8, M6 x 16 bolts.
Secure the converter using the special tool.
Unbolt the transmission box (bellhousing) from the engine.
Separate the engine from the transmission.
Leave the special tool attached when you put the transmission aside unless you have to perform some work on the transmission.

During the engine transmission assembly, install the special tool again.
This will keep the converter from falling out from the transmission pump to prevent damage if it falls out of place.

I've seen some recommendations to remove the exhaust cross over pipe, before dropping engine from car.. is this necessary?

[mikedsilva]

OK, so I removed the right side heat exchanger.. I'm guessing this is the bolt that would be impossible to get to with the heat exchangers still attached.