It's 2021. Why the disparity in values of the different g body models?

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I turned 50 two weeks back.

Congrats on the big 50 to both. I wish I was turning 50 again.

Originally Posted by juanbenae

that's nonsense.

i went and drove a G50 3.2 G bodied car when looking for another air cooled car after selling my 996tt. granted i only owned the 996TT for 10 months and drove a 78 SC prior that became a spec911 racecar. the 3.2 was a PIG even compared to the 996TT. i was wholly unimpressed with the entire experience.

the 75S i ended up with that had a junk motor was more fun to drive the 100 or so miles that i piloted it before putting in a spicy 3.oL that the G50 3.2 could ever be. in my estimation the more civilized they became the less fun per mile was experienced IMO. the 3.2 felt heavy, lethargic, and grossly under powered compared to my SC even in it's original stock form.

the driving experience changed greatly over the run of the G bodied cars.

as much as i hated the 996TT at the time, kinda wish i still had it now where I'm at in life and live.

I find it funny how some people judge an entire lineage of cars by one initial driving experience. You can jump from 911 to 911 same MY or different and each one will offer a unique experience. I have driven some awful 911's in the past and it had nothing to do with the model, engine or transmission.

Most of the time a simple suspension refresh or even more basic a simple proper wheel alignment can make all the difference. I can't tell you how many cars I see come in and the owner claims that so in so did the alignment and he is the best. We put it on the Hunter and within seconds can point out why the car drives as it does. One tire pointing this way the other another or just a poor alignment done by someone who can run a machine and align to a spec but doesn't know why a slight change to toe in or out can change the entire characteristics of the car. Or the engine has leak down numbers of >20% in one or more cylinders. Shift linkages shot or just age or deferred maintenance related issues.

There were a lot of G body cars made compared to any other air-cooled 911. I am seeing the market all over the place with SC's, 3.2's now bringing 6 figures for that needs nothing or completely restored to perfection car. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference in what MY as much as overall condition, originality, mileage or other factors seem to play a roll in. People just want that air-cooled experience and if you drive a modern car up till this point in your life and jump behind the wheel of an air-cooled 911 you either immediately get it or you don't. 0-60 or whatever R&T has conditioned us to judge a car by has nothing to do with the experience these cars offer and everyone is looking for something uniquely their own and there are many experiences to choose from.

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Surprised nobody has mentioned 74/75 being smog exempt in states like CA is a huge price booster. Rare colors, rare models, huge disparities in condition and mileage.

I thought about it, but figured it contradicted my assumption on the G50 buyer not being a "wrench".
Someone looking for a pre smog car probably has a *****n' set of tools.

WTF? you can't say B IT CH N'

[Matt Monson]

https://youtu.be/A5cneCgNA9U

[speedster911]

Who really cares about the superiority of the G50 v the 915 Says who?

pathetic heating and AC systems, Who buys an aircooled 911 for AC?

Most modern V6 Accords and a lot of minivans will outrun these models, not to mention post better 0-60 times. [COLOR="red"]Really, have you driven a hot 2.9 or 3.5?[/COLOR] and I bet I can go to local car lots and find your minivans and Accords sitting in the used car lots - how many aircooled 911s do you see sitting on lots?

They ALL share the same driving experience - So far from the truth. where did you get this from?

I heard a Porsche valuator a few years ago predict that all air cooled 911s would eventually settle at equal valuations. That person had a 50% chance of being correct... or wrong. He said it several years ago, have you contacted them to say whats up, its not happening.

Now, I don't know if he was including 964s and 993s, but I would tend to agree when it comes to the g body cars. A number of recent BAT auctions seem to be indicating this trend as well.[/QUOTE] lets look at the facts as you are lumping all gbodies together in your analysis. Should a limited edition gbody not have a premium over a larger run version. Case in point 74 carrera vs normal 74 911, 89 speedster vs normal, Slant nose 930 vs normal 930. If you extend past gbody- shouldn't a 996 / 997 GT3 or GT3RS with exceptional higher performance command a premium?. You also need to consider state requirements for smog/lack of smog as a driving market force. There have been posts about what color would you pay a premium. ... I think the market has spoken.

[matt930s]

The 3.2 is one of my favorite motors.

[techweenie]

Wow. Whatever 'Porsche evaluator' said all air cooled Porsches would be the same price isn't worth talking to.

As a 'Porsche evaluator' in my spare time, I can tell you my preference is strongly toward the lightest 911 with the most torque and that points to the 72/73 E. Put those at the top of the pyramid and slide on down to the 70 T and 76/77 with everything else in between ...but that's just my opinion -- after owning over 50 911s. Individual models may move up or down the scale depending on mods.

I personally like the 3.2 best of all the flat 6s, but the cars they were delivered in were pretty porky. Put that same engine in an F-body and you have a winner.

It's the driving dynamic that separates the cars and estabilshes value for the hard core. Esthetics separate the cars for other groups. The values of categories have bounced around, with 964s, especially, bouncing up over the last 14-16 years. A 964 I sold in the early 2000s for $17K would be $55K today. A '66 owned by my neighbor was worth $140K 6 years ago and is maybe $90K today. The range of prices (even excluding RS models) will be as much as 2.5:1.

[brisboats]

Porsche "evaluators" no matter how many they have owned just don't seem to get it right only the market does. Like stocks you cannot time the air cooled market but you can have time in and enjoy the ride.
B

[1979-930]

I have no doubt TW is 100% correct in his post.
I’ll never get the opportunity to drive the cars he has driven myself. So I’ll take his expert opinion as fact.

But again. The reason for the run up in the newer cars is that the people buying just see 3.2 and G50... SOLD!
They don’t know what TW does.


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[Matt Monson]

TW nails what my personal choice would be, a 72-73 E targa. My 75 targa actually had an E engine in it. From an engine standpoint, it’s been my favorite that I’ve owned.

[911heaven]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

TW nails what my personal choice would be, a 72-73 E targa. My 75 targa actually had an E engine in it. From an engine standpoint, it’s been my favorite that I’ve owned.

That guy that reached out to you via PM with the 72E targa...

No good?

[Glenfield]

Enjoyed reading TWs thoughts. Does make me excited about driving or maybe owning some older, lighter cars in time. Good design is “less, but more” (won’t attribute it at the risk of sounding like even more of a pompous tool). Even for a run like the G bodies, which are aesthetically so similar / same, just knowing of the “more” designed into the 3.2s was enough for me. If I’d had my time again and was less wet behind the ears, I’d have gone the early narrow Gs for a first jump off. On the journey now though with an SC and enjoying it greatly. What an incredibly capable car straight off the bat.

Yesterday I wanted a bigger engine in it, today I’m cool as is with a bit of lightening, tomorrow will be something totally different. Fun to think about and drive.

[Kansas]

I’d have gone the early narrow Gs for a first jump off. On the journey now though with an SC and enjoying it greatly. What an incredibly capable car straight off the bat.

Before I got my SC, I was also wanting a narrow G. Really wanted one with a 3.0 as I considered that to be an ideal set-up. But now that I have my SC, I’ve never been so satisfied. Can’t imagine desiring anything else.

....maybe an RS if I was loaded.

[RarlyL8]

Trying to make sense out of how the "market" values old cars is like predicting the rise and fall of pet rocks. What is deemed "cool" by the current in-crowd is typically not based on anything tangible such as rarity or performance (if that were the case a V-8 Vega would be worth $100k). Back in 1995 I could not give away my freshly restored '73 MFI 911T. It was deemed an ugly under powered old car that no one wanted. I remember thinking why are these cars expensive, there is nothing to them. And now sudden they become valuable ???? The M491 is a real head scratcher to me, a turbo with no turbo engine that is as valuable as a real turbo? That's just stupid.

[creaturecat]

anyone dissing the 915 doesn't really get it. shifting/working a sorted 915 is one of the more rewarding aspects of driving an aircooled 911. my prediction? the 915 cars will become as desirable as the "G is for grandmother" G 50. YMMV.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

anyone dissing the 915 doesn't really get it. shifting/working a sorted 915 is one of the more rewarding aspects of driving an aircooled 911. my prediction? the 915 cars will become as desirable as the "G is for grandmother" G 50. YMMV.

Yep. It’s why I chuckle during the numerous PDK vs Manual debates. I don’t need to be “involved” with my daily driver because I’ve got a vintage Porsche gearbox to row when I want to focus on being a good driver.

I prefer to drive a 901/914 even more than a 915, but the problem is they are weak. The extra couple mm of gear width from 901 to 915 is good for another 100hp.

[Kansas]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

anyone dissing the 915 doesn't really get it. shifting/working a sorted 915 is one of the more rewarding aspects of driving an aircooled 911. my prediction? the 915 cars will become as desirable as the "G is for grandmother" G 50. YMMV.

Couldn’t agree more. I finally have a 911 with the “dreaded” 915, and couldn’t be happier. Had a 964 with the g50 and actually like the 915 better. It’s honestly a lot more fun rowing through the gearing. Yes, the shifting has to be a little more deliberate, but it’s a very rewarding tranny to drive.

[1979-930]

How about the 360* turn around on slant nose car prices. 5 years ago you could not sell one.
Now they are top sellers


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[pmax]

Originally Posted by Kansas

Couldn’t agree more. I finally have a 911 with the “dreaded” 915, and couldn’t be happier. Had a 964 with the g50 and actually like the 915 better. It’s honestly a lot more fun rowing through the gearing. Yes, the shifting has to be a little more deliberate, but it’s a very rewarding tranny to drive.

Then you end up driving a 915 which commands front and center attention, when it's only job is to shift from one gear to the next when you move that mechanical linkage from the shifter to the slider but I can say one can almost feel the ring synchronizers clicking away when doing so.

[Cobalt]

I don't know, I see a lot of air-cooled 911's all in the same price range. Some have jumped up these past 7 years or so as others stayed constant but a needs nothing air-cooled can easily fetch 6 figures these days. This is not counting any specialty cars like RS, speedsters etc etc etc.


Buy and drive what you prefer. My 71E will always be one of my favorites but I couldn't go back at least around where I live. I drive a lot of 915 trans cars and they no longer do it for me. Still a great experience for the occasional drive but we all have our preferences and that is what makes it all good. The best 915 trans car I owned or drove was the max moritz built 3.2L engine in my 74 3.0RS tribute. Amazing car and I have yet to drive another like it. I regret selling that one. Although it had no sunroof, power windows or A/C.

[911heaven]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

I don't know, I see a lot of air-cooled 911's all in the same price range. Some have jumped up these past 7 years or so as others stayed constant but a needs nothing air-cooled can easily fetch 6 figures these days. This is not counting any specialty cars like RS, speedsters etc etc etc.


Buy and drive what you prefer. My 71E will always be one of my favorites but I couldn't go back at least around where I live. I drive a lot of 915 trans cars and they no longer do it for me. Still a great experience for the occasional drive but we all have our preferences and that is what makes it all good. The best 915 trans car I owned or drove was the max moritz built 3.2L engine in my 74 3.0RS tribute. Amazing car and I have yet to drive another like it. I regret selling that one. Although it had no sunroof, power windows or A/C.

That was my first 911, a 71E Euro model brought in from Holland. An older gentleman in Dallas got it from his sister while visiting. He traded it to me for my 924 straight across. I've never had more fun in a 911 since. I was only 21 years old and it was a targa.

Oh! and I'm 58 years old now.