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7.0:1 > 11.3:1
 
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930gt, here are a couple observations which may be of help.

Did you have your engine lid shut during your dyno runs? Otherwise there would be no air drawn through the core and heat soak would set in pretty quick.

My temp tests displayed that turbo discharge temps in the range of 600cfm at 1 bar (~400 hp) were 350 F with K27 or better. This means your intercooler is likely knocking off 150 F.

I shrouded my wing leaving a 6" opening on the right side of the louvers
which resulted in a 200F I/C discharge temp using an Andial half bay core, running one bar. (note that this is about 75F better than a stock core under the same conditions)

If you look at some pictures of Craig's car you will see his shrouding on the underside of his wing which causes the engine cooling fan to draw mostly through the intercooler core. With his half bay RUF he was reporting ambient plus ~10F wide open.

So, perhaps some shrouding is needed if you don't have any, though I agree that if your end tanks are so restrictive perhaps this is making the turbo work overtime in a low efficiency area of the compressor map.
Old 06-07-2007, 08:46 AM
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You can try www.goingsuperfast.com, not bad for the price., Candy.
Old 06-07-2007, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim2
930gt, here are a couple observations which may be of help.

Did you have your engine lid shut during your dyno runs? Otherwise there would be no air drawn through the core and heat soak would set in pretty quick.

My temp tests displayed that turbo discharge temps in the range of 600cfm at 1 bar (~400 hp) were 350 F with K27 or better. This means your intercooler is likely knocking off 150 F.

I shrouded my wing leaving a 6" opening on the right side of the louvers
which resulted in a 200F I/C discharge temp using an Andial half bay core, running one bar. (note that this is about 75F better than a stock core under the same conditions)

If you look at some pictures of Craig's car you will see his shrouding on the underside of his wing which causes the engine cooling fan to draw mostly through the intercooler core. With his half bay RUF he was reporting ambient plus ~10F wide open.

So, perhaps some shrouding is needed if you don't have any, though I agree that if your end tanks are so restrictive perhaps this is making the turbo work overtime in a low efficiency area of the compressor map.
When my brother dynoed my car he did it with the lid down(idiot)
and my intercooler was heat soaked badly and we still managed to put down 489rwhp @16psi. This was w/ the stock ecu and a modified proto chip.

http://media.ams-evo8.com/videos/amsmisc/PorscheDynoRun.wmv

Also, was your intercooler core a side to side or top to bottom? For low boost I would go to a top to bottom. For high hp, side to side.

Also, I have my rear engine tin removed. my car runs cooler and my intercooler is cooler.

End design is important, but it's your core that cools the air going through it. Did you see if the is anything blocking the core?
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Old 06-07-2007, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Candelaria
You can try www.goingsuperfast.com, not bad for the price., Candy.
Candy, I think this was handled in the first page of the post, BUT, I think that the products in the above mentioned site, are ok for a single individual who has fabbed some of his own stuff. I do not think that there is one item on that website that I thought was made good enough to make on a basis for retail to the public. I am sorry, but IMHO, for the money there are MUCH higher quality stuff. I probably just pissed in several peoples wheaties bowls, but I am sorry..... That is the way I feel and my opinion.
I do think however that there are several companies out there...Bell included, who do a wonderful job at what they do... Sometimes you get what you pay for....

It has been mentioned above that shrouding the I/C and the remaining free airspace in the tail, will have a positive effect on dropping the I/C temps. When you dyno a car, you must have TONS of air flow over the I/C!!
I am only pushing Bell I/C, because I have purchased one, It works, as I have seen it with my own eyes, it is VERY resonable... considering the other I/C's out there, and I really liked dealing with Gerhart at Bell.... I have a few more pics of the I/C next to my old Koklyn uinit that I will post.

I WILL SAY THIS.... I still believe that for a CIS car, the Koklyn unit is still the best I/C out there for a otherwise stock car. I had to go with a bigger one as I have so many mods now.... I outgrew the Koklyn..

Pics to follow
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Old 06-07-2007, 11:46 AM
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pics....



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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 06-07-2007, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by turbobrat930
Candy, I think this was handled in the first page of the post, BUT, I think that the products in the above mentioned site, are ok for a single individual who has fabbed some of his own stuff. I do not think that there is one item on that website that I thought was made good enough to make on a basis for retail to the public. I am sorry, but IMHO, for the money there are MUCH higher quality stuff. I probably just pissed in several peoples wheaties bowls, but I am sorry..... That is the way I feel and my opinion.
I do think however that there are several companies out there...Bell included, who do a wonderful job at what they do... Sometimes you get what you pay for....

It has been mentioned above that shrouding the I/C and the remaining free airspace in the tail, will have a positive effect on dropping the I/C temps. When you dyno a car, you must have TONS of air flow over the I/C!!
I am only pushing Bell I/C, because I have purchased one, It works, as I have seen it with my own eyes, it is VERY resonable... considering the other I/C's out there, and I really liked dealing with Gerhart at Bell.... I have a few more pics of the I/C next to my old Koklyn uinit that I will post.

I WILL SAY THIS.... I still believe that for a CIS car, the Koklyn unit is still the best I/C out there for a otherwise stock car. I had to go with a bigger one as I have so many mods now.... I outgrew the Koklyn..

Pics to follow
I agree with the exception of the build quality of the IC. I own a fab shop and teach welding/fabbing at a local college and the IC's are made very well.. .. I doubt the quality is the issue maybe design is more of the issue.. those 2 get mixed up often on the forums
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Old 06-07-2007, 12:29 PM
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The only problem that I have with GSF I/Cs is that they have too many sharp, right angles- There is no curvature in the end tanks. I bought one a while back by accident (long story) and ended up hacking off the ends and having them re-welded and used it on my Galant VR-4. The core and end tanks were OK, it cooled the charged air pretty well- But I only had a small 16G Mitsu. turbo on the car with an inlet of a whopping 1" 3/4. The inlet of my porsche's turbo will swallow the whole turbo off my Galant and it needs to have an I/C that will flow pretty big CFM. Im still in the process of talking to a local fabricator about doing the end tanks, if problems arise then I will be asking around for fab help. I really do appreciate the offers.
As for the dyno procedure on my car, I had a 9,000 CFM fan blowing right on it with the lid up. The intercooler got so hot that I burned grates into my hand when I felt it.
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Old 06-07-2007, 01:42 PM
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I have EFI and a 3.2 plenum and my Kokeln managed to get 505 rwhp with .85 bar. It is not a full bay but still does OK. I needed to keep all the AC stuff. Black car in TN heat.
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Old 06-07-2007, 04:24 PM
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Well, I have used in the past the Corky's stuff, and in two ocassions they have cracked on the outlet tanks, requiring welding (long cracks along those sharp bends), they also use sharp bends on must of their designs, see the continous recicling of positive and negative pressures wiil take a toll on these designs, the best tank design is the use of cast ends (tanks) Kolkein, Andial, RUF, Porsche, all use this form of tank design, for durability sake.,Candy.
Old 06-07-2007, 09:14 PM
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What Candy said- Hydro formed is pretty good as well
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Old 06-07-2007, 09:27 PM
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Something else that will help prevent cracking is to weld the inside and outside seams. It will warp the tanks more requiring a little more work fitting them, but it should prevent cracking on the sharp corners.
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Old 06-11-2007, 05:28 AM
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That is very true, but my idea is that there should be little to no sharp corners on an I/C. I wish someone made a good cast endtank for a height-wise core, casings are the way to go as far as im concerned. I will have to settle for a few sharp corners as I am limited to sheet metal.
I still have one more fabricator to talk to before I just spring for a bell intercooler. Im getting anxious now.
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Old 06-11-2007, 05:38 AM
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I have seen a few bell intercoolers ( 930 and f40)
they were all very high quality
I will be using one on my car for sure
john
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Old 06-12-2007, 12:29 PM
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Some designs are good, others not so good, cheers, Candy.
Old 06-12-2007, 04:25 PM
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Not sure what all the fuss is....you have a perfectly good unit you could take out of Jimmys shop! Not like my car ever runs
Old 06-12-2007, 08:48 PM
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hahaha
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:06 PM
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Hi I am the guy from goingsuperfast.com, just finish the 6 piston 6 brake pads brake conversion kit using Corvette Z-06 calipers for 1981 - 1989 Porsche 930. http://www.goingsuperfast.com/images/Z06-3.JPG

Cayenne turbo calipers for 930

http://www.goingsuperfast.com/images/930_with_Cayenne_caliper-2.JPG

I am busy testing and making new parts, I didn't know the parts I sell works on my test car but not on yours.

I didn't make my own intercooler, I send the work out to a intercooler shop in US, who makes 400 intercooler a month. I test the 26 x 12 x 3 intercooler on my 1989 930 single plug and " HUGE" 26 x 18 x 3 intercooler on my 1986 911 Carrera with 1992 965 motor . I never see the air temp go up that high like the way you are saying, I sold 965 intercooler for $500 and I sold Power Haus half bay intercooler was on the car for $600.

The header factory who makes header for me also makes header for muffler system for BMW, Ferrari, Porsche.

I only have a set of header without heat returned, exchange for the header with heat.

If you are not happy with the parts I made please let me know, I will find a way to improve it.
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:33 PM
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I am the guy from Goingsuperfast.com

about my cars.

1975 914 will put the 965 turbo motor in and twin turbocharge it with DTA S-80 PRO
1986 Porsche 944 turbo, 2.7 big bore with DTA s60
1988 Porsche 944 turboS 2.5 with 928 GTS big black brake kit.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, Carrera intake manifold, T-72 "leaking turbocharger" from Imagine Auto. will put 3.2 Carrera motor with GT35 R turbocharge back in, when 914 conversion is done.
1989 930 with DTA P-8 pro EFI conversion, GT-35 R, 964 cam.
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1975 914, 1988 944 turbo S sold.
1986 944 turbo resleeve 2.7, DTA S-60 PRO.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, DTA S-80 PRO.
1989 930 EFI, DTA, Carrera intake, twinturbo,2x GT-35R.
1991 964 convertible, wide body conversion.
Old 06-12-2007, 11:48 PM
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I bought one of your first intercoolers on ebay. I bought the 26 x 12 x 3
because you had pictures of the 26 x 18 x 3 and I thought the big one would satisfy my horspower goals. Well I got the small intercooler and was a little angry, but I look on the bright side of things. I eventually cut the end collets off and had them rewelded on and made the intercooler fit on my Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 and it worked well.
great workmanship on the I/C, just not big enough.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:16 PM
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I will have mine for sale as soon we install the new one, it wont be cheap do.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:44 PM
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