Help me design a "grassroots" turbo conversion for my SC 3.0L

[patkeefe]

Thanks:
All Porsches should be track capable. Lot easier to build a street only model, that never sees more tha 10 seconds of boost.

Prior, I had no boost retard. That strategy did not work out as well as hoped. The new iteration has an MSD boost retartd box, and a J&S Safeguard. I figure the MSD will for sure work, whereas the J&S unit will let me run at the edge of detonation.. I don't know how good of a knock signal I will get.

[copbait73]

930 parts for sale:

FS: 78 930 Engine Parts

[gavinc69]

Found an old article on turbo charging Bosch K-Jetronic 911's, very simple design.
Note this was done on a 1974 model car so should be better all round on a 3.0 car ;-)
Im torn between turbo charging and supercharging myself, supercharger seems easier but when ever i hear a Zork im left nursing a semi lol.
This type of setup with maybe a few added extras from other peoples turbo conversions maybe the answer...







Two more images to follow

[gavinc69]

[gavinc69]

[gavinc69]

Anyone know if a turbocharger form an Audi TT would be good for a 3.0 conversion?

There are several different models and are KKK like Porsche used to use model numbers :

K04 - 020
K04 - 022
K04 - 023

Prices seem good second hand, easy availability and they have an adjustable actuator with them to adjust boost.

[911st]

Good find on the article.

This is a "Blow Through" style set up and exactly what I was thinking!

Originally Posted by 911st

...Could build it as a 'blow through' using the existing CIS system.

Blow through would cut the plumbing in half...

[gavinc69]

Just found these on ebay, not sure what the turbo's are like, but they are selling them stating they are fine for 911's and engine from 1.8 to 3.0 ltr, the turbo's alone are cheap and the extra parts in the basic kit would come in handy, although a large intercooler with different shape and in/out locations would be better :

PORSCHE 944 914 911 4" T70/T3 STAGE IV 4 TURBO CHARGER : eBay Motors (item 250497250121 end time Apr-09-10 18:54:15 PDT)

Porsche 911 T3T4 TurboCharger Turbo Kit : eBay Motors (item 260551660886 end time Apr-11-10 20:00:06 PDT)

Porsche 911 T3T4 TurboCharger Turbo Kit : eBay Motors (item 270461026251 end time Mar-23-10 12:35:25 PDT)

Porsche 911 T3T4 Turbo Charger Kit : eBay Motors (item 350216993012 end time Apr-18-10 20:19:24 PDT)

[911st]

I have to assunm thouse are Chinise turbos. I do not know anything about them but what little I have heard would give me pause.

I would rather find a used K27-7200 or even stock LDZ from a stock 930.

Alternately. I bought a custom 60-1 Turbonetics turbo once several years ago new sized to work well on a 930 for about $650. I do not know what they would cost now but they are very good turbos. Might look into something like that. 944 and Audi units will be to small on the hot side.

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by 911st

Good find on the article.

This is a "Blow Through" style set up and exactly what I was thinking!

I don't think that clear plastic air-box cover would stand too many engine heat and 5 psi boost cycles before fatigue failure and blowout.

[911st]

This is out there and not tottaly in the spirt of a cheap build.

I wonder if one could by going with the blow through design fit a water to air intercooler into the air box. Could just leave the back side of the air section open and flange it to fit part way into the CIS air box.

This could get effective intercooling under the stock hood.

Would be pretty neat.

Could be fun.

[911st]

I wonder if one could fit a pot from a 930 to the SC distributor to get "boost retard" in place of vac retard.

I suspect one would have to use the inside or Vac Retard side of the 930 pot to do this. Then just set timing like on a 930 at 25 deg at rpm and when boost come up it would retard to about 19 deg.

I wonder if there is a correlation between the direction a Porsche dist rotates and if it has vac-advance (2.7RS and 3.0 Turbo?), or vac retard (SC and 3.3 Turbo?).

[flat6pilot]

This thread has me interested.

I have a 1980 Euro 3.0l SC with 8.5-1 pistons. I'm also using TBitz's EFI setup. (If it helps or matters)

Using a modest, stock 930 turbo system is an interesting idea.

Has someone made a parts list by any chance of what it would take to do a "stock 930" turbo conversion?

I saw Ben (M&K) has a turbo kit, but doesn't have any info on his website yet.


-Just curious, but might pull the trigger.

[jcc911]

Here is a list of all the items I sourced for the conversion. Some parts are not required, like the twin plug and 965stuff.

Good Luck!!!

930 CIS
CIS Fuel Lines - only bc my cis was missing this
CIS Elbow - only bc my cis was missing this
Turbo Piping
Intercooler&Shroud
Airbox
993 Hes
Flip Flanges
Y-pipe
Turbo
Scavange Pump
Muffler
Intake Studs
Turbo Bracket
IC Bracket (+coil)
Turbo Oil Tank
Waste Gates 38mm Vband
Charge pipe seal
WUR Banjo bolt
"Turbo Oil supply Lines/
IC Harware, Mount"
Turbo oil return - AN fittings
K27 Adapter
Airbox to CIS bracket
965 Elbow
965 Reducer
"Gaskets (P. Parts Order)
Brake pads, o-rings"
Turbo Decklid
Boost Guage
Distributor
Lower Plug Wires

[flat6pilot]

Thanks for the shopping list Jeremy!

[carslutt]

neat project

[Tilikum Turbo]

A proper conversion will cost a LOT of $$$$...I spent roughly $22,000 converting a 1983 SC to a 3.3L turbo(1986 930 engine)IF you SC is in good shape, it may be worth it just to sell it outright, and buy a properly sorted 930.

The tranny is also something to consider...my 915 was beefed up, with a Proforce Clutch/Flywheel wet-up. The conversion was done by 911 Design(which also run a 911 in the ALMS series) in Montclair, CA.

Personally, i don't recommending trying to make a 911SC engine into a 930 engine. The 930 engine was designed from the get-go for forced induction...not so for the SC series. What you may have at the end of such a project is a 'bastard-child' which may be difficult at best to sell or establish a value(kinda like doing some home improvements which can actually de-value a home)

Contrary to popular belief, parts numbers on 911 engines that start with 930_... are not 930 turbo parts lifted onto the regular 911.

Good luck whatever you do!

[gsmith660]

Originally Posted by Tilikum Turbo

Personally, i don't recommending trying to make a 911SC engine into a 930 engine. The 930 engine was designed from the get-go for forced induction...not so for the SC series. What you may have at the end of such a project is a 'bastard-child' which may be difficult at best to sell or establish a value(kinda like doing some home improvements which can actually de-value a home)

Contrary to popular belief, parts numbers on 911 engines that start with 930_... are not 930 turbo parts lifted onto the regular 911.

Good luck whatever you do!

That is not entirely correct, a part number is a part number the lower end on the SC and the turbo share the majority of the internal parts I believe the difference is the oil pump area as the turbo was designed with a higher capacity pump than the SC and other subtle changes but basically the same. As for cost 22K is certainly possible for any motor but if you are doing the work yourself and not using all exotic parts (as most stock lower end parts are well suited for a turbo motor) you will not need near that much money. As for your "basterd-child" comment to each their own I didn't do it for the established value idea I did it because it's kind of like climbing Everest just to see if I could do it which is more the spirit of this forum and more of what the original thread author was trying to do.

[Tilikum Turbo]

Originally Posted by gsmith660

That is not entirely correct, a part number is a part number the lower end on the SC and the turbo share the majority of the internal parts I believe the difference is the oil pump area as the turbo was designed with a higher capacity pump than the SC and other subtle changes but basically the same. As for cost 22K is certainly possible for any motor but if you are doing the work yourself and not using all exotic parts (as most stock lower end parts are well suited for a turbo motor) you will not need near that much money. As for your "basterd-child" comment to each their own I didn't do it for the established value idea I did it because it's kind of like climbing Everest just to see if I could do it which is more the spirit of this forum and more of what the original thread author was trying to do.

Don't take offense at the 'bastard-child' comment: I am sure that someone down the road would want to buy it, but personally I won't touch someones "project" car with a 100 foot pole. Why? Any 911 is seriously de-valued when the engine is re-worked into something it never was intended to be. The crank, heads, pistons, bore, just to name a few are major differences between the normal 3.0L SC engine, and the 3.3L turbo. Those and many other changes are the 'subtle' differences that make the engine upgraded to take the forced induction(which that 930 was designed and engineered for), along with the RELIABILITY. I am sure you could twin-turbo a 911SC engine, but it might only last 10-20K.

You could chase down parts for 6-12 months, and beat youself up in the heat/cold of your garage, only to result in something less than desirable.
Even as an engineer, I trust the engineers at Porsche a LOT more than me that they did the research and development on that turbo motor. Trying to spin yarn into gold in my own garage...I just can't go there. My 7 years in university was my "mount everest". I'm not going to try and re-invent the wheel, when it's sitting right in front of me.

Cheers!

[gsmith660]

Originally Posted by Tilikum Turbo

Don't take offense at the 'bastard-child' comment: I am sure that someone down the road would want to buy it, but personally I won't touch someones "project" car with a 100 foot pole. Why? Any 911 is seriously de-valued when the engine is re-worked into something it never was intended to be. The crank, heads, pistons, bore, just to name a few are major differences between the normal 3.0L SC engine, and the 3.3L turbo. Those and many other changes are the 'subtle' differences that make the engine upgraded to take the forced induction(which that 930 was designed and engineered for), along with the RELIABILITY. I am sure you could twin-turbo a 911SC engine, but it might only last 10-20K.

You could chase down parts for 6-12 months, and beat youself up in the heat/cold of your garage, only to result in something less than desirable.
Even as an engineer, I trust the engineers at Porsche a LOT more than me that they did the research and development on that turbo motor. Trying to spin yarn into gold in my own garage...I just can't go there. My 7 years in university was my "mount everest". I'm not going to try and re-invent the wheel, when it's sitting right in front of me.

Cheers!

Whoa you need to climb down off that high horse your car is in the same boat as mine I do it for fun not for resale value my car was hamstrung for that from its inception due to the extent of the thiefs work but you did yours by design I am not taking offense but I think you should take another tack since you have also bastardized your car your tone is very high and mighty, wont get too much help on this forum from that. No offense but if 7 years in college is the pinnicle you should set your sights higher your already on the downhill slide.