How high can boost go with my new setup?

[Robbbyg]

Appreciate your view Ronnie i know its coming from experience,

But im the type of person that can read all day from a book and not learn a thing, thats why i find the forums so valuable, as they are immediate issues at hand and the best learning for me is from a collective where there are many different solutions each of which has worked from that particular persons experience of view passing on information that will give solutions to the problem at hand,
Ive bought many books on the 911 and 930 big fat mechanic and service books but i only have interest in the pages with the colour photos
I know the car will be completely trouble free and reliable with a 1.1 boost spring after my changes, as it was trouble free and still reliable when it was boosting beyond 1.2 1.3 1.4 etc last year, and my current planned changes are minimal and can be done without knowledge of the workings of the said parts.

With my new IC , manifold from a 3.3 shell be absolutely fine, don't forget I'm running 100 octane have 2 oil coolers, plus its a Euro Engine, 1.1 bar boost is nothing!

Just because you need to know everything and learn about inner workings doesn't mean that others have to follow suit and study i hope can understand that ? can't you??

Geez if we all went off and learnt about mafs and afr's there would be no more Technical forum now would there?

I think this Technical is not the place for knowledgeable types with chips on their shoulders , You were dum once too remember, so i guess you went off and read up on everything on 930's do you know how many fingers im holding up? you dont? you should go and read a book on Psychological workings of the mind i think before you post remarks like that


Read a book ????

Friggin Unbelievable, why don't you read a book on how to speak to people without Pissing them off?


However I DID just read that some people from US don't have the knowledge to think before they post.

Are you still in the dark on this subject?
Well its because you didn't read up about it


Answer is

TWO

[Ronnie's.930]

Rob, I honestly do not understand at all what your problem is.

I put a lot of thought into my post and it contained many useful tips on how to go about considering adding additional boost to yours, or any engine. In addition, I provided a basic definition/description of detonation. In other words, I supplied you with useful information, much of which I have gained from the members of this forum, and I did so in a respectful and non-offensive manner.

How is learning how something works a bad thing - what do you think a technical forum is for? You really lost me with that one.

I don't recall telling you to go read a book, and those links I provided are past threads where the very questions you have asked about are discussed in length.

How you can view what I wrote as some sort of attack is beyond me, but of course, I did anticipate the possibility given your demeanor toward constructive suggestions in the past.

If you don't want help understanding the 930 turbocharging and fueling systems, then for crying out loud, don't ask for it!

And speaking of chips on shoulders, it appears you've got a boulder on yours.

[Ronnie's.930]

And Rob, one other tidbit - if you don't want to hear from very knowledgeable people, then this is definitely not the forum for you. A fart from the likes of JFairman, RarlyL8, SpeedySquirrel, CopBait and several others, contains far more turbocharging and K-Jetronic knowledge than I could ever provide, so definitely don't read their posts.

[quattrorunner]

Robby, relax.
Knowledge is good, you'll get more with time but for now, I think some of us are trying to help. Ronnie is sometimes brash, but he's full of info when you need it. Also, there are many here that can answer questions for those that know lots more than even he. In other words, there are lots of levels of understanding here. Ronnie and all others posting on your thread want to help. We want you to succeed.
If I were you, I'd read some threads suggested. And if you would rather, search some out for yourself and read those. If your interested, your mind will receive it. I like picture books too but when it comes to cars, my mind will retain.
What Ronnie said was good. It was helpful and trust me, if it was meant to insult you, you would know it. It was not.
Please let me know anything I can help you with. I think you have a cool project and I'd love to see it finished.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by quattrorunner

Ronnie is sometimes brash, but he's full of info when you need it.

And sometimes full of s@it (and JB Weld, too)!!!

[JohnJL]

I thought it was nice of Ronnie to take a good bit of time to read and respond with a good deal of information and suggested threads. You might nothave liked his correcting your use f terms, but you have to appreciate his taking the time and effort to try and help you (for free.)

There are e number of guys in the Sydney area who can help you. Check some of my supercharged threads, there are posts and mentions of a few guys in your area who are knowlledgable if you don't seem to get or like what you are getting through this forum.

[Tippy]

To answer the OP's question about why doesn't boost blow off a vacuum line before the jug.

It's simple, the cylinder pressure before boost is over 100PSI. Add an explosion from the combustion (additional PSI) before the piston rises to the top and COMPRESS that explosion, and you have serious PSI!!!

So, hundreds or thousands of PSI of combustion/detonation vs ~15 PSI of boost on a vacuum hose.

[oz 930 turbo]

Hey Ronnie
Well I sure respect your insight and your technical proficiency, I must admit my understanding of the cars is limited but thanks to guys like you I pick up little bits of knowledge here and there and after 4 years of ownership I'm starting to understand to issues involved with modifying these old girls.
Keep the knowledge flowing

[Robbbyg]

I ask Questions about an issue, when i or anyone ask a question about a thing i am ready with an open mind to listen to the way others have achieved it to listen to the
ANSWERS to that QUESTION

Like i said its what the forum is for

I dont come here to read answers like
QUOTE;
this whole process will go more smoothly for you if you take the time to learn,ENDQUOTE

My Learning is this Forum thread and others and i am spending time in it arent i?

So what do you mean by that??
please explain if i got my wires crossed i apologize

theres too much deviation from original questions,

If i ask what is one plus one ?

first answer will be geez robbby you serious it equals two

So that person knows the answer to that question to which i am eternally grateful for, i dont care how he answers it as long as its an answer

Or someone might say heck i dont know i guess i better read up on that and learn it because im interested to do so,--(Thats fine also it is your choice)


BUT
The second answer might be, well youll learn a lot more if you take the time to learn

WTF does that mean? one plus one is three?

(that is not an answer) it is just taking unessesary time up for me in reading those lines that give me no answer so it should not be posted, and it also insults my intelligence because it is highlighting my lack of knowledge in a specific area, , doesnt matter if i dont know the answers ronnie, like i said thats what the forums are for, to ask a Question and to get an answer. so if you cant answer then please dont offer suggestions to what i should do with my limited time to go off and take the time to learn.

Sorry Ronnie but
Everytime i read those words it gives me the %$%#@ ****s

Outside of that im cool

[Robbbyg]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

If you don't want help understanding the 930 turbocharging and fueling systems, then for crying out loud, don't ask for it!

Can you please show me where i asked for help in help understanding the 930 turbocharging and fueling systems,???

Thats the point Ronnie I DIDNT ask for it!!!!!!!!!!!!

I asked how high can i go with boost with the mods im putting on the car.!!

As far as im concerned it has NOTHING to do with fueling systems or anything outside the parts im putting on the car!

You deviate my question with things like ---oh i should take the time to learn, //i call things the wrong name,// thats not called that part

Why?

Im not in class im in a Forum with a Simple friggin Question

your not a teacher by any chance??

Putting on IC -Simple it cools engine
putting on 3.3 manifold -Simple need it to take IC
Putting on Diverter valve- Simple cos someone said i need it

QUESTION
WITH THOSE MODS HOW CAN I GO SAFELY?

Its not rocket science
its a simple job for me a couple of bolts and away i go, but you seem to have a need to make it all sound confusing and that need to go off and learn stuff about it and for that i take offence. ,
If you dont know the answer then say so
If you know then say so but please dont take it away on tangents that have no specific answer to the problem,

I cant be distracted to the job at hand its not personal i dont know you,
Im just asking you to be accurate and direct in your answers, answers to the specific question.

PS, Thanks Mr Fairman for being specific in answer it explains clearly my question about boost pressure, you should read it Ronnie youll see the difference in styles of answering posts, you might lean how to approach it diffeently in future, i dont want to talk about this again, it is wasting time and distracting me from my build

So please lets move on and hopefully we all learnt something about increasing boost pressure with a couple of 3.3 mods have a nice day cheers

[Ronnie's.930]

Rob, I was going to type a thoughtful answer to your question in post #29 (what did I mean by "learn the component names") but following the utter nonsense that you vomited forth in your latest post, all I will offer you at this point is (I hope this is specific enough for you) . . .

[quattrorunner]

Robby. This statement and some others like it are why Ronnie has taken the posture he has.
"Putting on IC -Simple it cools engine"
Inter coolers are sometimes called charge coolers because what they actually cool is the pressurized air not the engine. Does it cool the engine, well IC'ed engine is cooler than non but not really that noticeably.
Robby, your project would be more simple for YOU if you knew more about the different parts that make up a turbocharged engine.
It is confusing though, partly because our engines differ from modern engines with the fueling aspect. Younger guys who've been around modern cars wouldn't know what or why we use a fuel meter. It's complicated and archaic. But if you have one, you'd better figure out what the heck it does cause sooner or later that knowledge will be needed.
I adjust mine often. Every year for smog, twice again when temps Change and sometimes when I go up in elevation I need to adjust it. It's because I understand it that I know how and why I. Need to adjust. We're just trying to nudge you in the right direction, well maybe not Ronnie anymore. Once the butt is flashed you can't easily come back from that
Anyway, ask questions, there is lots to know.

[krasuskyp]

I've refrained from chiming in here due to your belief I was picking on you before, but geesh - can't resist now after your childish tirades. Yikes.

I was actually surprised Ronnie took the time and tried to answer your question the way he did. I think he exercised great restraint and gave you sound advice.

Basically, you can't help someone that can't (won't) help themselves. Sure this forum's to learn from, however all the advice given here won't help someone who lacks basic common understanding of certain aspects of mechanics. All of which could (should) be found by simple Google search, Pelican search, You Tube, etc.

Without that nominal effort expelled, there's not much folks can try to share with you that will do any good - in fact it will unfortunately likely lead to bigger problems for you and your car.

Your questions here and in many of your previous posts are so far out there, it's hard for folks to give you an answer which will help. That goes back to a previous thread where I'd joked that sometimes I wondered if you'd just created an alias user name to post bombastic questions here just to mess with folks, as the questions are pretty - er - unique.

Like, if you can remove your air mass meter / fuel head, or your confusion of intercooling (which Brandon addressed above), your mention of the trombone oil cooler being the solution (it isn't), your understanding of boost pressure (also addressed above), and your perspectives regarding used parts pricing.

Most of those are to the point of almost seeming to be too far out of whack to be true. But apparently they are - which is fine - but that's why someone like Ronnie answered the way he did. You need to help yourself first before we can help you.

I'm further shocked at folks continuing to take the high road and try to help you, despite all this. Impressed, to be more accurate. Speaks to the high caliber of folks we've got here.

Me, I'd have answered your "how high can boost go" query after your tantrums with "2bar, at least... better yet - 2.5 to 3bar". Alas, I'll (attempt) to take the higher road here as well, because it's the right thing to do.

I didn't use it last time, but it's rather merited now:



I hope you are able to listen to some of this, learn from it, and put the right (better) foot forward. You mean well, just need to open your mind a bit...

[Nuen Werke]

I think Robby is probably a smart guy at what he knows, job , life etc. and he is just frustrated that he can not apply his skills to this particular endeavor and it makes him a bit testy. I remember so many years ago that I didn't understand any of it and how frustrating it was but listening to the ones that did with respect and reverence is why I command the skillset I have today. Hell, I am still learning all the time. There is never an end to learning and honing any particular set of skills...especially concerning these cars and these types of machines in general.
So all that being said my kind and well meant advice to Robby would be to take a step or two back, collect your thoughts, regain your balance and find the humility to become an excellent Porsche 930 mechanic who's advice and skills may be sought out from the next generation of owners.

[///Criss]

Originally Posted by krasuskyp

I didn't use it last time, but it's rather merited now:



I hope you are able to listen to some of this, learn from it, and put the right (better) foot forward. You mean well, just need to open your mind a bit...

Hehe

[Skillet83]

Would like to ask if there is a book out there to purchase that would explain the mechanicals of these cars in a very simplistic form? Remember, Turtle had to explain to me what my wastegate pipe was. There may be no hope for me, if not, I can help support our local mechanics. Quattro, speaking of a fuel meter, foreign to me. WUR, warm up regulator? What does it do? Not looking for answers to those specific questions, but if there is a resource for someone like me? Sorry for the hijack. Anyone in the Tulsa area? I grill a killer ribeye, ribs are not bad either.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Skillet83

Would like to ask if there is a book out there to purchase that would explain the mechanicals of these cars in a very simplistic form? Remember, Turtle had to explain to me what my wastegate pipe was. There may be no hope for me, if not, I can help support our local mechanics. Quattro, speaking of a fuel meter, foreign to me. WUR, warm up regulator? What does it do? Not looking for answers to those specific questions, but if there is a resource for someone like me? Sorry for the hijack. Anyone in the Tulsa area? I grill a killer ribeye, ribs are not bad either.

This K-Jetronic video is a good start. Note - it is not turbo-specific, so some of the turbo system components are not explained, but it is a good, basic explanation of the system.

Bosch K-Jetronic (CIS) explained - YouTube

The late Bruce Anderson's book, 911 Performance Handbook, is also an excellent, fairly easy, read. It also is not turbo specific, though there is a lot of turbo information in it, and of course, much of the fundamentals of the car are shared (regular 911 'v' 930). Also, there is much good information about the historic development of the various models and info on vin decoding and so forth.

Pelican Parts.com - Porsche 911 Performance Handbook

This website, developed by a guy that posts on Pelican, is excellent also (again, not turbo specific, but full of excellent info).

911 CIS Primer - Index

[gsxrken]

Originally Posted by krasuskyp

Your questions here and in many of your previous posts are so far out there, it's hard for folks to give you an answer which will help. That goes back to a previous thread where I'd joked that sometimes I wondered if you'd just created an alias user name to post bombastic questions here just to mess with folks, as the questions are pretty - er - unique.

...

Actually Paul, I missed that post but I have thought the same thing myself, except I thought it might be you! There is a certain over the top-ness throughout his posts that a rare few could creatively pull off... but you're one of them.
Care to come clean?

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Robbbyg

your not a teacher by any chance??

Putting on IC -Simple it cools engine
putting on 3.3 manifold -Simple need it to take IC
Putting on Diverter valve- Simple cos someone said i need it

QUESTION
WITH THOSE MODS HOW CAN I GO SAFELY?

Hi Rob, I just noticed your "teacher" question in this post, and guess what, I was a middle school English teacher for sixteen years (Dallas TX school system - all 16 years at the same, meat grinder, school). How funny that it shows in my "style"! And by the way, you should use "you're", (you + are) not the possessive (your).

And as far as answering your primary question, noted above, that was the first thing I did in my initial post in this thread - with those mods (OEM intercooler, right?) and no plans to monitor, and increase, fueling, then you should not go above stock boost levels (.7 -.8 BAR). This is not just some baseless opinion that I pulled out of my ass, but is a well established norm/standard in the 911 Turbo world.

[Tonger]

R 930,

I mostly just lurk but wanted to say thanks for the links on CIS - especially the video which helps to demystify some of the underhood boxes. I'm in the process of revising my turbo/IC/header setup and was confused wrt the whole adjustable WUR discussion.

After watching the video, it seems like a truly adjustable wur would be able to set a total of 3 parameters?

1. Vertical position of fulcrum point of bimetallic strip.
2. Relative vertical position of valve/diaphragm at the free end of the bimetallic strip that controls valve position.
3. Vacuum adjustment input.

So can you please explain how the rpm module would interact with this to provide more fuel at high rpm boost? I would assume that moving the boost lower in the rpm range would require retuning the WUR (how would you adjust this)? What would be the best way of accomplishing this short of EFI? After the revision, my car boost threshold should be 1000-1200 rpm lower.

Thanks!