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I had to ask cause i faced the funnel of diminishing returns as I started collecting ALL parts needed to do the job, such as 3.2 manifold, spare set of heads to port and match to the intake, cams, garrett turbo, but then I had flinched and backed out at the thought of ripping into my VERY clean, low mileage. Buddy did his, but i choked and kept mine more original and to this day wonder if should pulled the trigger.

I sold the parts and moved on.......

Every time i ride in buddy's car though....WOW !

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TURBO = Free Power
Old 10-20-2016, 08:30 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Head work and EFI are a much deeper commitment than simple bolt-on items. You can still enjoy your car a bunch more by swapping out the simple stuff.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 10-21-2016, 04:47 AM
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I have done full exhaust (rarlyl8), turbo (k27hfs), Intercooler (TurboKraft), wastegate 1.0 bar spring (TiAl), WUR (leask) as well as removing all the emissions crap and it is a totally different animal. All bolt ons that are relatively easy to put back (compared to internal engine work, etc).

I recently drove a friends 91 964T with the 3.3 motor and while it is certainly fast and definitely more refined (G50 and suspension are improved from the 930), our cars are TOTALLY different with respect to performance and the way the power comes on. I have had to spend a lot of time tweaking and fixing things that I may not have had to do had I left it alone and stock, but I am happy I did it because of the rush that I get on boost with so much more power than when I bought it.
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1988 930 Venetian Blue
Old 10-21-2016, 09:20 AM
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Modify, but keep all stock parts and don't do anything so drastic you couldn't go back if tastes change.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:30 AM
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Keep it original appearing and do just the bolt on mods and cams. My car looks stock aside from an aftermarket exhaust which is hard to see and I have an Andial intercooler painted black so that does not look much different than stock either, the rest of the mods can't be seen. My car is fast as **** and keeps me entertained.

All my original parts are in a box on the top shelf of the garage.
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Old 10-21-2016, 12:37 PM
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Max bolt on probably gets you close to 400 HP ish ?
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Old 10-21-2016, 05:41 PM
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Slippery slope skier
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry S View Post
I had to ask cause i faced the funnel of diminishing returns as I started collecting ALL parts needed to do the job, such as 3.2 manifold, spare set of heads to port and match to the intake, cams, garrett turbo, but then I had flinched and backed out at the thought of ripping into my VERY clean, low mileage. Buddy did his, but i choked and kept mine more original and to this day wonder if should pulled the trigger.

I sold the parts and moved on.......

Every time i ride in buddy's car though....WOW !
If you regret not doing it....I guess you made the wrong choice.
If you regret doing it......(haven't heard anyone admit to this one).....then I guess you went way too far down the slippery slope + some more x 3.14

Life is short...:.
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Costa P
'85 930 Grand Prix White ...the oil leak rebuild which mutated into MoTeC EFI+twinscroll GT35R+twinplug+ ...

930 rebuild The revival of my mothballed project
Old 10-22-2016, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 1979-930 View Post
Build what you want. There is no guarantee the market on theses cars won't collapse completely anyway.

My personal opinion on the extent of modifications is when you try and make a 25+ year old car out perform a 2014 or newer car. Improve what was restricted by technology limitations or regulations of the period, but don't try to out perform a 2016 anything. At that point you are pissing money away.
Well put, in tune. The origins of this car are from racing cars not the choked down version for the road car market. My vote is to liberate using EFI and 3D machining technology. Then enjoy using up the tires!
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Old 10-22-2016, 01:28 AM
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What's left to "bolt on"?

With Brian's headers, TiaL wastegate, street muffler, 7200 turbo...

What's left to bolt on? I don't track the car, and most likely won't, but that doesn't mean that I don't like to get the most (or best) out of that sweet flat six. I'm still thinking about cams - wanting to get more out of the bottom end, but I feel as if there might be some low hanging fruit not being taken advantage of...
Old 10-22-2016, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarkin View Post
With Brian's headers, TiaL wastegate, street muffler, 7200 turbo...

What's left to bolt on? I don't track the car, and most likely won't, but that doesn't mean that I don't like to get the most (or best) out of that sweet flat six. I'm still thinking about cams - wanting to get more out of the bottom end, but I feel as if there might be some low hanging fruit not being taken advantage of...
Intercooler. Tunable WUR if you're not going EFI. Weight reduction. Suspension.

- Chris.
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Old 10-22-2016, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarkin View Post
With Brian's headers, TiaL wastegate, street muffler, 7200 turbo...

What's left to bolt on? I don't track the car, and most likely won't, but that doesn't mean that I don't like to get the most (or best) out of that sweet flat six. I'm still thinking about cams - wanting to get more out of the bottom end, but I feel as if there might be some low hanging fruit not being taken advantage of...
A more modern turbo will get you alot more. I really don't understand why so many people here stick with the overpriced under performing K-27s. It really doesnt take much work to fit a Garrett or other more modern turbos.
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81 Pacific Blue 930 Euro coupe slicktop on a strict diet, Rarlyl8 headers, Blowzilla turbo, Tial waste gate, Full bay I/C, Home made center out exhaust, Leask WUR, MSD 6AL, PLX wideband
Wevo shifter, LSD. Next up, Cams, Heads and port work
Old 10-22-2016, 11:59 AM
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K27's are not cheap but they're not toys either, they'll last as long as your engine. Not to beat a dead horse but I don't see comparable sized aftermarket turbos significantly outperforming them. It all depends on what you're after, old school bolt-ons or more modern electronics and water cooled turbos. If resale is a consideration I think buyers would be more comfortable seeing a K27 and RUF intercooler versus EFI and a ball bearing turbo with custom oil lines.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 10-22-2016, 06:55 PM
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Are all K27's 55mm? Always thought they were 60mm....
Old 10-23-2016, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry S View Post
I had to ask cause i faced the funnel of diminishing returns as I started collecting ALL parts needed to do the job, such as 3.2 manifold, spare set of heads to port and match to the intake, cams, garrett turbo, but then I had flinched and backed out at the thought of ripping into my VERY clean, low mileage. Buddy did his, but i choked and kept mine more original and to this day wonder if should pulled the trigger.

I sold the parts and moved on.......

Every time i ride in buddy's car though....WOW !
This is why it is so important to be honest with yourself and really know what you want when you purchase your car, to make sure you get the car you really want, and not the car you thought you wanted.

So now you own a really low mileage stock car you are afraid to put miles on and modify but it sounds like you really wanted a car you could hot rod and drive.

So for the lurkers and future owners out there, learn from others and do not make the same mistakes.
Old 10-23-2016, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
K27's are not cheap but they're not toys either, they'll last as long as your engine. Not to beat a dead horse but I don't see comparable sized aftermarket turbos significantly outperforming them. It all depends on what you're after, old school bolt-ons or more modern electronics and water cooled turbos. If resale is a consideration I think buyers would be more comfortable seeing a K27 and RUF intercooler versus EFI and a ball bearing turbo with custom oil lines.
Brian,

I respectfully disagree. I can't imagine anyone equating a k27 turbo or a RUF intercooler with stock when it came down to purchasing a car. No matter what is in there, it will take a similar amount of work to put it back to stock. Besides, if someone is going through the time and trouble of the reversible bolt on improvement pathway, why would they intentionally limit themselves to a 2/3 solution? It's like putting in as much work as the next guy with the intention of getting no higher than a 'C+'... Ball bearing turbo, twin scroll header, high capacity long neck intercooler, low restriction exhaust, and 964 or SC cams and you've transformed the car into something that spools both early and with purpose.

Personally, I'd rather see a Garrett BB turbo and a long neck Garretson/TK intercooler than a k27 or a RUF which would get dumped on the classifieds almost immediately. Besides, there's really no point to paying the RUF IC premium to underachieve from a performance perspective. Keep the stock stuff in a box and do the best reversible modification thing to make the car as fun to drive as possible. For me, this meant lowering the turbo spool threshold as much as possible - it transforms the car. Using lower performing and dated technology to go 'half way' is like trying to get 'half pregnant', just sayin'...
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonger View Post
Brian,

I respectfully disagree. I can't imagine anyone equating a k27 turbo or a RUF intercooler with stock when it came down to purchasing a car. No matter what is in there, it will take a similar amount of work to put it back to stock. Besides, if someone is going through the time and trouble of the reversible bolt on improvement pathway, why would they intentionally limit themselves to a 2/3 solution? It's like putting in as much work as the next guy with the intention of getting no higher than a 'C+'... Ball bearing turbo, twin scroll header, high capacity long neck intercooler, low restriction exhaust, and 964 or SC cams and you've transformed the car into something that spools both early and with purpose.

Personally, I'd rather see a Garrett BB turbo and a long neck Garretson/TK intercooler than a k27 or a RUF which would get dumped on the classifieds almost immediately. Besides, there's really no point to paying the RUF IC premium to underachieve from a performance perspective. Keep the stock stuff in a box and do the best reversible modification thing to make the car as fun to drive as possible. For me, this meant lowering the turbo spool threshold as much as possible - it transforms the car. Using lower performing and dated technology to go 'half way' is like trying to get 'half pregnant', just sayin'...
bingo
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81 Pacific Blue 930 Euro coupe slicktop on a strict diet, Rarlyl8 headers, Blowzilla turbo, Tial waste gate, Full bay I/C, Home made center out exhaust, Leask WUR, MSD 6AL, PLX wideband
Wevo shifter, LSD. Next up, Cams, Heads and port work
Old 10-23-2016, 06:40 PM
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Man, there's a good joke in the "half-pregnant" phrase, but I'll refrain......
Old 10-23-2016, 06:44 PM
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I know there is something to be said for a 930 that can stay with an Aventador and 458 all day in the straights.
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonger View Post
Brian,

I respectfully disagree. I can't imagine anyone equating a k27 turbo or a RUF intercooler with stock when it came down to purchasing a car. No matter what is in there, it will take a similar amount of work to put it back to stock. Besides, if someone is going through the time and trouble of the reversible bolt on improvement pathway, why would they intentionally limit themselves to a 2/3 solution? It's like putting in as much work as the next guy with the intention of getting no higher than a 'C+'... Ball bearing turbo, twin scroll header, high capacity long neck intercooler, low restriction exhaust, and 964 or SC cams and you've transformed the car into something that spools both early and with purpose.

Personally, I'd rather see a Garrett BB turbo and a long neck Garretson/TK intercooler than a k27 or a RUF which would get dumped on the classifieds almost immediately. Besides, there's really no point to paying the RUF IC premium to underachieve from a performance perspective. Keep the stock stuff in a box and do the best reversible modification thing to make the car as fun to drive as possible. For me, this meant lowering the turbo spool threshold as much as possible - it transforms the car. Using lower performing and dated technology to go 'half way' is like trying to get 'half pregnant', just sayin'...
Ha! I guess I'm not the norm..RUF intercooler,GT35R,Motec M84,3.4L Twin plug..etc..etc.. oh and the value of the car(for those that care)?.....



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Last edited by speednme1; 10-24-2016 at 08:07 AM..
Old 10-24-2016, 04:28 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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There still exists a number of enthusiasts who enjoy old school mods (believe it or not). Old school mods most certainly are much easier to reverse than anything custom, when that time comes. You know what you've got. A 930 is never going to be as powerful or have all the modern gizmos that make new cars so easy to make power. A buddy of mine has a 1000HP Corvette that he has less than $30K in total and drives it everywhere. Goes from the beach getting 30mpg to the track and pulls 6 flat 1/8th mile times. You build your 930 for your own enjoyment, lots of ways to do that.

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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 10-24-2016, 05:06 AM
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