The Complete Engine Sealant Thread...

[DRACO A5OG]

Got that too.

So off topic, sort of.

What do you guys use for the 915 gear box guide tube and TOB. I have the Porsche Hi-temp grease but it just does not seem to last and gets pretty gummy over time.

TIA,

Jim

[mikedsilva]

I have my 964 apart, down to the case.. contemplating whether to split or not.. Trying to get my head around all the differing sealants, and of course the fact I can not get loctite 574 here in Australia!
The below idea of installing all throughbolts without o rings first, is something I had not thought of before.. and I like the idea! I assume this is done to get the case halves together before any sealant cures too much...

I am still reading through the sealant thread, but assume that whilst my engine is later than most those described in this thread, the principles are roughly the same?
Mike

Originally Posted by dtw

Very timely for this thread to be bumped to the top. I can add my recent experience:

-On my recent 2.7 build, I used Henry's Threebond x2/Loctite 574/Curil T method. This really worked out well, I am very pleased with the results. In the course of planning the build, I've talked to a few pro builders who really like the Threebond as a case seam sealant as well. Good enough for me. Having said that, my engine assembled with 574 is pretty dry.

-This time around, I did NOT use Curil T on the crank snout or flywheel seals. So far, both are dry. They were much easier to install WITHOUT the Curil T. When using the Curil, the seals very effectively walk themselves out of their seated positions unless I pin them down overnight. Maybe I have been using too much of it? Dunno, but I'm done with it on crank seals. I did use the Curil T on my cylinder base gaskets, breather gasket, cam thrust plate gaskets & o-rings, etc. I think that's about it.

MCA/Craig - if you've got the sealants you need and want to proceed with your build, here's a tip. Assemble the bottom end without ANY through-bolt o-rings. If you're assembling alone, this really helps you to get the case together quickly. When you're happy with the completed bottom end assembly, you can then remove your through-bolts and install the o-rings - one at a time. Remove bolt, install o-rings, reinstall bolt, torque to spec, then move on to the next bolt, and so forth (in the torque sequence, if you're really being anal - I do/am), until all o-rings are installed.

It is easier to get confused about what bolts have been ringed and which haven't this way. Not only do I pre-count my o-rings twice to make sure I start with the right number, but I also mark each acorn nut with an 'X' using a Sharpie after installing the o-rings and re-torquing. If all the nuts have 'X's and I am out of o-rings, then I think I'm in good shape . Having done several builds with both the blue and green o-rings, I would say hold out for the green ones, no question. They really fit much better. I don't think I've ever had a green one 'squeeze out' from under the washer like I almost always had with the blue ones.

[gtc]

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

...
The below idea of installing all throughbolts without o rings first, is something I had not thought of before.. and I like the idea! I assume this is done to get the case halves together before any sealant cures too much...
...

Correct. Though if you have a helper, it's not difficult to install the o-rings and torque the through bolts the first time within your curing time limit.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG

Got that too.

So off topic, sort of.

What do you guys use for the 915 gear box guide tube and TOB. I have the Porsche Hi-temp grease but it just does not seem to last and gets pretty gummy over time.

TIA,

Jim

Many use the Swepco, others swear by kendal, most say only use dino oil.
Myself I just use cheaper stuff and change it every season because it's cheap. But I always dump in a half quart of swepco, just because the pretty blue dye makes it easy to spot a tranny leak on the floor.

I only use Swepco 101 grease, works on everything from bearings to CV's, plus it will not mix with water. I just bought a new case.

[arbita1]

Is the threebond similar to the 574 in that if some gets in the case it will dissolve? Or will it clog up the oil passages?

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by arbita1

Is the threebond similar to the 574 in that if some gets in the case it will dissolve? Or will it clog up the oil passages?

If you put it on correctly there shouldn't be much squeeze out and oil doesn't soften it like RTV.

[lvporschepilot]

I remain baffled as to why Loctite 574 is used for these motors as a sealant. 574 is designed to more so to mate very tight tolerance cylindrical surfaces to one another and is frequently used by electric motor companies to secure small gears to the shaft. I've often seen 574 used as a replacement to machining a keyway in a shaft to secure a small gear meaning the only thing securing the small gear to the shaft is 574, it is that strong. 574 has an incredibly high PSI strength and was designed, in my opinion, as more of a glue than as a sealant. There are other sealants Loctite makes that were specifically design for the purpose of sealing minus the extremely PSI tensile strength. Sure 574 can be used as a sealant but why? The stuff is more of a metal glue than anything else.

[KTL]

Taken from Loctite's website today. You make the call. Note the last picture shows them laying a bead on a gearbox flange.

[mikedsilva]

OK, over here in Aus, I wonder if we have the same branded products but different compositions.. so far, I have bought the 1104, 111 Molycote and 1211... the 574 is on its way and wasn't cheap.
Here are photos of the packets.. I hope they are correct. What does the NEO mean on my 1104?

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by lvporschepilot

I remain baffled as to why Loctite 574 is used for these motors as a sealant. 574 is designed to more so to mate very tight tolerance cylindrical surfaces to one another and is frequently used by electric motor companies to secure small gears to the shaft. I've often seen 574 used as a replacement to machining a keyway in a shaft to secure a small gear meaning the only thing securing the small gear to the shaft is 574, it is that strong. 574 has an incredibly high PSI strength and was designed, in my opinion, as more of a glue than as a sealant. There are other sealants Loctite makes that were specifically design for the purpose of sealing minus the extremely PSI tensile strength. Sure 574 can be used as a sealant but why? The stuff is more of a metal glue than anything else.

I think you're mixing up Loctite PN's. It's not that strong, and is listed as medium strength.

I 100% regret not using it on my cases due to this thread, and have leaks. Workshop manual states to use 574 on case flanges.

[Mark Henry]

I can say one thing, aircooled, but not porsche related.

I have an old homelite chainsaw and when I rebuilt it I had to seal the two magnesium case halves, which are also the gas tank. 2 stroke gas/oil mix.
The first time I used 574, let it cure overnight and within hours of filling it was leaking like a sieve.

Took it all apart again, cleaned it and then used the Threebond, not a drop and that's been at least 4 years of hard use.

BTW the 1104 NEO is fine.

[arbita1]

I can get the follow threebond sealants...

1104NEO
1184
1194

Can someone confirm the correct one to buy.


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[lvporschepilot]

Originally Posted by Tippy

I think you're mixing up Loctite PN's. It's not that strong, and is listed as medium strength.

I 100% regret not using it on my cases due to this thread, and have leaks. Workshop manual states to use 574 on case flanges.

You know what, after I double checked I saw you fellows are completely correct. I was thinking of Loctite 548, which is exactly what I described. My bad!

[mikedsilva]

hi all...

just to confirm, on my 964 there are large green o rings which seal the bottom of the cylinders to the case.
Is Curil T the correct sealant to use here?

[theiceman]

I used curil T on all my Viton ( green ) orings. not leaking so far.

Also I bought 1104 and couldn't even get it out of the tube, must have been old stock, waste of money. Bought some yamabond and it went on like butter , great stuff, unlike 574 tho it wont dissolve in oil so be carful how you use it, don't want it in an oil gallery.
when I did my engine I thought I was going to run out of 574 so I used 574 on one side and yamabond on the other.. my yamabond side is bone dry but my 574 side is leaking a fair bit on to the exchangers.

I am checking for a rockershaft leak so jury still out.

[mikedsilva]

theiceman
do you mean that on one side of the cam tower to head seal, you used 574, and yamabond on the other?

Also, what did you use for your case through bolt o-rings?

[theiceman]

yup 1-3 yamabond
4-6 used 574
.... got a drip on to my heat exchangers on 4-6

i used curil t on the through bolt orings ( green) so far bone dry

[gtc]

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

What does the NEO mean on my 1104?

Originally Posted by arbita1

I can get the follow threebond sealants...

1104NEO
1184
1194

Can someone confirm the correct one to buy.

After asking Three Bond about this, they say that 1104 Neo is the same product as 1104, but made in Malaysia. 1184 is the US replacement for 1104.
If you email them with the code stamped on the end of the tube, they can track the batch and tell you when the product expires.

[arbita1]

Originally Posted by gtc

After asking Three Bond about this, they say that 1104 Neo is the same product as 1104, but made in Malaysia. 1184 is the US replacement for 1104.
If you email them with the code stamped on the end of the tube, they can track the batch and tell you when the product expires.

I ended up using the 1184.

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by gtc

After asking Three Bond about this, they say that 1104 Neo is the same product as 1104, but made in Malaysia. 1184 is the US replacement for 1104.
If you email them with the code stamped on the end of the tube, they can track the batch and tell you when the product expires.

if you know the email address I would love to know about my stuff I couldn't even get out of the tube. I bought it on ebay and was a waste of money. id love to go back to the guy that sold it to me with this.