The Complete Engine Sealant Thread...

[rep]

Originally Posted by rep

Thanks, if you could indulge me once more. Would you recommend Curil T on the intake runners to head gasket? Are these very likely to leak? I'd like to avoid any mess by installing dry but looks painful to remedy if one leaked.

Thanks again.

Anyone? Seems I've also read someone using grease and another hi temp anti-seize on these gaskets. Either of these work?

Searched this thread and others to no avail.

[efhughes3]

I used Curil T on the intake runners-heads on my 3.2 build.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by rep

Anyone? Seems I've also read someone using grease and another hi temp anti-seize on these gaskets. Either of these work?

Searched this thread and others to no avail.

I use grease on my intake gaskets, especially for carbs. You can take the intake on and off several times without damaging the gasket.
I rub the grease in and wipe off all excess. I use Swepco grease.
I've done this for over 25 years, never an issue or leak. Of course this is for paper intake gaskets only.

I also true up the manifolds, flat surface like glass with sandpaper, 180 grit is the finest you have to go.

I wouldn't use anti-seize.

[KTL]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

I also true up the manifolds, flat surface like glass with sandpaper, 180 grit is the finest you have to go.

^^^ Good advice there by Mark. I'll also add that it's a good idea to true up the plastic/phenolic spacers to avoid leaks. With flat manifolds and flat spacers, you should have no issues with leaks.

[2jmotorsports]

I read through this whole thread and didnt catch much detail on the case assembly method where you assemble and torque the thru bolts without the o-rings then go back and put them in afterwards, to help you get everything torqued before the adhesives cure. Here is my assumption of what it is:

1. Follow normal assembly procedure with stated adhesives/sealants.
2. Install case thru bolts, washers, and nuts without o-rings.
3. Torque case thru bolts and perimeter nuts per normal assembly procedure.
4. Wait for all adhesives to cure completely. (how long is this? a day or two?)
5. Come back and remove one thru bolt at a time, install o-rings with Dow 55, reinstall in case and retorque.
6. Repeat with all case thru bolts in the original tightening order?

Can anyone confirm? Thanks in advance.

[John McM]

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

I found the 1104 started to "tack off" before I had finished spreading around the perimeter of the case. You need to work fast; aim to have it together within 5-10mins max.

The timeframe on the box is even smaller, it reads as 1 minute. Sorry, but I'm confused as to how everyone is closing up the case in the required time if the sealant is starting to tack off even before the sealant application is finished.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by John McM

The timeframe on the box is even smaller, it reads as 1 minute. Sorry, but I'm confused as to how everyone is closing up the case in the required time if the sealant is starting to tack off even before the sealant application is finished.

This time actually refers to "working time", the time you have to evenly spread the sealant onto the mating surface.
It doesn't matter if it starts to tack/skin after it's applied, you then have a 15-20 minute window for putting the halves together.

I've used this on several magnesium chainsaw cases where the engine case is part of the fuel tank. This is a 100% perfect sealant for this job and if it can seal a tank up for fuel it will have no problem with oil.

[VFR750]

Originally Posted by 2jmotorsports

I read through this whole thread and didnt catch much detail on the case assembly method where you assemble and torque the thru bolts without the o-rings then go back and put them in afterwards, to help you get everything torqued before the adhesives cure. Here is my assumption of what it is:

1. Follow normal assembly procedure with stated adhesives/sealants.
2. Install case thru bolts, washers, and nuts without o-rings.
3. Torque case thru bolts and perimeter nuts per normal assembly procedure.
4. Wait for all adhesives to cure completely. (how long is this? a day or two?)
5. Come back and remove one thru bolt at a time, install o-rings with Dow 55, reinstall in case and retorque.
6. Repeat with all case thru bolts in the original tightening order?

Can anyone confirm? Thanks in advance.

But, why?

Confirming you can put all of this together, with the o-rings and Dow 55, in one go. I.e., follow the normal procedure with the recommended sealants and lubricants.

Having a helper makes it less stressful. As is practicing installing the thru-bolts to get a feel for: 1) is your crank going to turn freely, 2) I know how long it is going to take, 3 all the tools are ready, 4) and the workbench is organized to make it happen quickly.

It went pretty fast, and now, even 7000 miles later it doesn't leak.

[2jmotorsports]

I suppose the only reason would be to add a bit of a safety factor in making sure you get everything torqued before the adhesives kick off.

As much as I would like a helper, I dont have much access to one at the moment and I am literally about to seal a 3.0L case.

[NEWFIE 69 911E]

Loctite 574 versus 518:

Ok, having a difficult time finding Loctite 574 here locally, but 518 is available.

Is 518 ok to use on the cam towers to heads sealing surface? I need to proceed with this tomorrow - cannot wait for next order...

Thanks,

Tom

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

When the #8 main bearing leaks it can be caused by one or both of two issues.
When the leak occurs on a fresh engine quite often the case journal that holds the bearing is out of round. I've measured ovality over .015". The bearing seals by compressing an o-ring and because this area is under pressure, a standard o-ring (unassisted) is incapable of sealing with this kind of tolerance. This ovality is the reason why (after years of resisting) we started using ThreeBond 1211 in the #8 journal.
The second issue, the most common on an engine with higher mileage is a compressed and hardened o-ring. After the engine has heat cycled and sat year in and year out the o-ring under compression takes a set, hardens and fails.

Is the Threebond 1211 used just on the o ring or is the entire #8 bearing given a thin covering?
thanks

[efhughes3]

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

Is the Threebond 1211 used just on the o ring or is the entire #8 bearing given a thin covering?
thanks

Not on the o-ring itself!

[lvporschepilot]

Reviving this never-ending great thread.

Most everyone here likes using Loctite 574 on the main bearing webs due to its additional shear strength it adds, especially to unpinned mag cases, aiding the cessation of chatter which occurs in these things. I cannot say how successful 574 has been in helping these situations or not, hopefully someone can chime in? Anyway, it was brought to my attention by a Loctite rep that a low or medium strength retaining compound such as 509 would actually be a more appropriate for this particular application. Tensile strength of 509 on aluminum or mag is about 40% stronger and it is also anaerobic. My concern would be that because it's stronger, how much more difficult would that make for the case to come apart again? Don't personally know how difficult it is taking apart a case treated with 574 on the webs, but we can say it might be a bit more difficult?

My shop is very near Road Atlanta so we have all manner of reps going through the area and I happen to catch this gentleman today at the machine shop I use and we discussed the topic a bit. Just a note re an alternative and if anyone cares to comment.

[KTL]

574 is tried and true but the cleanup of cured sealant is kind of a drag with today's solvents (weaker). Not a big deal. Just worth mentioning.

I know the chatter you speak of on the main webs. Seems to be the norm on these engines. I've heard some pros say they don't like the 574 goop on the main webs because it can prevent complete bearing "squish" or "crush" as they call it. The 574 does squeeze out quite well, so the residual amount left between the mating surfaces seems quite thin. I would just be sure to spread the 574 or 509 as absolutely thin as possible here.

Regarding the effort required to break the bond, the last engine I did had the orange goop on the webs and it wasn't excessively difficult to get the case apart. But I had used the white threebond 1184 on the case perimeter and that stuff doesn't make the case halves stick together like the 574. So I can't say with certainty how much extra effort is needed with the additional 574 placed on the webs.

Another good solution to the web chatter is sleeving the case through the through-bolt bores. Craig from G2 Performance does this with stainless sleeves and he notches them where there are oil delivery passages for the piston squirters. Also saw Neil Harvey doing this on the basketcase rebuild update recently posted.

Home Built engine build. Saving the unsaveable.

[bpu699]

Does anyone know if Supertech still sells their complete adhesive packages? Its on their site, but the checkout feature isn't working (page is blank). Also, it says they will call to verify order prior to actual order occurring? Is that SOP?

I will probably just call, but was trying to save them some time on the phone as its a small order...

KTL, the point you mention is interesting. I wonder how much crush you lose by using the 574 near the through bolts...

When I test reassemble my case this weekend I may just see and measure...

Bo

[gtc]

You can also buy the Supertec kit through Pelican.
SPTC-SUP-CSK-001

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by gtc

You can also buy the Supertec kit through Pelican.
SPTC-SUP-CSK-001

Cool, didn't know that?

Searched here for first for all the components and none of the Loctite products showed up...

Did buy from our host...

Bo

[bpu699]

I'm in Wisconsin... And it just got cold. In the 50s today...

Anyone have comments on using these sealers in cold, but no freezing, weather?

I would think you would have a longer working time, which may be a good thing...

Any negatives or folks having issues?

[2jmotorsports]

Will be sealing my heads to cam towers soon with Threebond 1194. The sealing surfaces on my heads are currently a nice shiny machined finish and my cam towers have a nice finely textured bead blasted finish. Provided they are clean are these surfaces ok to mate as-is or should one be changed for another?

[bpu699]

Folks, have you guys applied threebond to both case halves or only one? Bought the sealant kit, no instructions inside. Some posters put it on one side and reported it leaked? Couldn't find a definitive answer...

Henry?


Bo