The Begining - Page 4

smokintr6 · 06:06 AM

Quote:

I plan on replacing just the lower head studs with steel.

. I would replace all the head studs while it's down. It seems like false economy to only do half the job while the engine is apart.

Who is doing your Alusil work? I don't mean to be repetitive, but the cylinders need to be modified by a shop with access to the proper Sunnen hone equipment. There is no problem refinishing Alusil as long as the proper stones are used, and the final step involving felt tools with finishing paste.

Flat6pac · 05-18-2009, 06:33 AM

The top studs are already steel what would you change them to?

911st · 05-18-2009, 06:35 AM

I think he is looking at having his cylinders bored out to 3.4's and replated which should get rid of the Alusil.

smokintr6 · 05-18-2009, 07:18 AM

I would replace them with whatever your research tells you is best, but I would start with all new studs. Maybe that's what you intended to do, and I didn't understand they way you wrote it. I would have to scan my notes to see what I used last time...they may have been all steel, I just don't remember, and I don't want to speculate. I have seen some builders commenting that doing half the studs in 993 Dilivar isn't a bad decision either. The Dilivar lasted 20 years the first time, there's no reason to suspect it wouldn't continue to provide that level of service now. I don't mean to muddy the waters of you research anymore than to suggest that you have all new studs to start with, even though the steel uppers should be possibly OK.

911st, Nickasil is a coating that can be bored or honed through into a naked cylinder wall. The Nickasil coating can then be reapplied by companies that specialize in that process.

Alusil is not a coating. The whole sleeve has the same composition, a monolithic if you will. Using corse stones and a Sunnen hone you can "bore" the cylinders out, but they are still alusil. You must then use a finishing process to raise the silicon (not silicone) particles to the surface. Silicon particles are hard to provide wear resistance, and require a special piston ring. I have spent several weeks of my free time researcing this topic, and there is an overabundance of information and misinformation out there. One easy source of good info is the Porsche 944 and 944 turbo factory service manual, as all 944's had Alusil blocks. You can also still find some information on Kolbenschmidt, the OEM.

I do not know if you can Nickasil plate on a bored out Alusil cylinder, I was not aware that you could... maybe someone can set me straight on that.

peppy · 05-18-2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokintr6

I would replace them with whatever your research tells you is best, but I would start with all new studs. Maybe that's what you intended to do, and I didn't understand they way you wrote it. I would have to scan my notes to see what I used last time...they may have been all steel, I just don't remember, and I don't want to speculate. I have seen some builders commenting that doing half the studs in 993 Dilivar isn't a bad decision either. The Dilivar lasted 20 years the first time, there's no reason to suspect it wouldn't continue to provide that level of service now. I don't mean to muddy the waters of you research anymore than to suggest that you have all new studs to start with, even though the steel uppers should be possibly OK.

911st, Nickasil is a coating that can be bored or honed through into a naked cylinder wall. The Nickasil coating can then be reapplied by companies that specialize in that process.

Alusil is not a coating. The whole sleeve has the same composition, a monolithic if you will. Using corse stones and a Sunnen hone you can "bore" the cylinders out, but they are still alusil. You must then use a finishing process to raise the silicon (not silicone) particles to the surface. Silicon particles are hard to provide wear resistance, and require a special piston ring. I have spent several weeks of my free time researcing this topic, and there is an overabundance of information and misinformation out there. One easy source of good info is the Porsche 944 and 944 turbo factory service manual, as all 944's had Alusil blocks. You can also still find some information on Kolbenschmidt, the OEM.

I do not know if you can Nickasil plate on a bored out Alusil cylinder, I was not aware that you could... maybe someone can set me straight on that.

My understanding is they can take alusil cylinders, bore them, and then replate with nikasil.

smokintr6 · 05-18-2009, 07:35 AM

Peppy, Good to know. What companies are doing this work? I just remembered seeing the LN engineering display at hershey this year, and they were doing some Nikasil work for boxster engines. I don't remember if they were installing a sleeve, or applying the coating to the cylinder wall. I'll look into it.

1982911SCTarga · 05-18-2009, 12:34 PM

The term "alusil" refers to a coating method, too. This describes the process.

Brian

gregwils · gregwils's Garage

You can bore Alusil and coat with Nikasil. I have seen Charles Navarro recommend these guys (link below). If you bore your Alusil cylinders, they will require special iron coated 3.4 pistons, so you will need to source them, in addition to finding someone that can bore your cylinders. It will probabably cost $2k to bore to 3.4 and apply a Nikasil coating and JE pistons. The latter is probably the more common route on this board based on all the threads I have read.

http://www.mt-llc.com/index.html

911st · 05-19-2009, 02:00 PM

Check with EBS in Reno (Engine Builder Supply) I may be wrong but I think having your cylinders bored and plated is about $1k plus about $1k for J&E's.

Also migh check with LN enginering. They also make 102mm cylinders that work with SC & 3.2 motors.

http://www.lnengineering.com/911.html

peppy · 08-11-2009, 01:54 PM

Oh what a pile of stuff.

964 grind

She looks so sad

Shiny parts 3.4JE

Does getting most of the parts mean I am almost there?

Flat6pac · 08-11-2009, 04:23 PM

I didnt read all the pages but about the starter. Get one from our host, the hi torque because its smaller. With the G50 you have to lower the front of the trans to get enough clearance to get the nuts off the starter because of the larger bell housing the starter is closer to the floorpan. Suggestion, BTDT
Bruce

peppy · 05-28-2012, 01:32 PM

I started today, got the rods out and burnished the ARP rod bolts. I did document the length of the bolts before I started, lots of lube and a couple of hours.

I am hoping this goes smooth. I will post pics and progress as I go.

Thanks in advance for all the help on this site.

peppy · 05-29-2012, 12:46 PM

My help for the day.

I don't know if the engine was leaking in this many places, but it is where they put JB weld before. I am going to put it back just like it was.

[img]

New thread chasing tool

Sboxin · Sboxin's Garage

First -- glad to see you back working on the engine -- this thread is a great read...
Second -- You have a great helper there!!
Last -- I learned something new -- JB Weld for case leaks -- does this really work?

Regards,
Roy T

Also currently rebuilding/upgrading a 964 engine for son's 911SC race car...
and reading as many engine threads as possible

KTL · 05-30-2012, 08:13 AM

The JB Weld he's using is Loctite's version called Hysol 9340. Good stuff.

The engine wasn't leaking in all the places where the epoxy is applied. Is used as a protection against the potential for leaks. All those places on the case are where machining plugs are located (except the spot in the oil cooler location- that's a notoriously thin spot on the casting that frequently leaks) and the epoxy seals the plugs to prevent weeping.

The fun is just starting...... Cleaning and prep is one of the hardest parts IMO. Reassembly is pretty straightforward when you've got Wayne's rebuild book and the Bentley Manual +Bruce Anderson's 911 Performance Handbook as a backup

Whatever you do, don't cut corners on piston installation. Use a good ring compressor that uniformly compresses the rings all the way around so you can easily slide the piston into the cylinder. You want to lightly oil the rings, piston sides & skirts, and the cylinder, as well as the inner surface of the ring compressor. Then wipe out the excess oil once you've got the piston & cylinder installed & secured to the case with your PVC hold-downs.

peppy · 05-30-2012, 08:41 AM

What is a good piston ring compressor (brand,type)? I am going to have to get one.

KTL · 05-30-2012, 09:00 AM

Well the best kind are the tapered cylinders. They're the cat's meow. I used a 3.870" ARP ring for my 98mm pistons

ARP Tapered Ring Compressors UNIVERSAL 0 - 0 899-8700

But the adjustable clamp style work OK too and they obviously work for more than just one size of piston

Pelican Parts.com - Piston Ring Compressor Set

peppy · 05-30-2012, 09:06 AM

Thanks

sjf911 · sjf911's Garage

I just used a Wiseco 98mm tapered ring compressor for the first time and I am a true convert. Given the choice, I would never use one of the adjustables again. The Stomski circlip injector was a worthwhile investment as well.

KTL · 05-31-2012, 07:38 AM

Thanks for mentioning the Wiseco ring compressor Steve. Same thing as the ARP and quite a bit cheaper!

http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Wiseco-CompressorSleeves.pdf

Also agree the Stomski injector is the hot setup. Takes a little bit of practice to get the feel for inserting the clip into the tool and also how to best "pull the trigger" to snap the clip into the piston. But once you get the hang of it, it puts a smile on your face every time. No more gouging pistons with picks and screwdrivers during circlip install!