Rod Bearing Controversy

[tom1394racing]

Talk to anyone who is regularly building 911 engines for track use. They will tell you about premature failures in rod bearings for 2.4/2.7 and 3.2/3.3/3.6 crankshafts. I have one friend with a 2.7 and a 3.6 track car. Both suffered rod bearing failures first time out. This is the reason the Clevite bearing was developed.

I am building a 2.45 for my '70E street restoration and will be using the Clevite bearings on the advice of the local Porsche engine guru here in CT.

[crummasel]

OK, could you please name a source for Clevites please?

[GT2BH]

Originally Posted by tom1394racing

Talk to anyone who is regularly building 911 engines for track use. They will tell you about premature failures in rod bearings for 2.4/2.7 and 3.2/3.3/3.6 crankshafts. I have one friend with a 2.7 and a 3.6 track car. Both suffered rod bearing failures first time out. This is the reason the Clevite bearing was developed.

I am building a 2.45 for my '70E street restoration and will be using the Clevite bearings on the advice of the local Porsche engine guru here in CT.

From my research it seems clevites are only made for American cars - how can you apply these to 911 engines?

[safe]

A few weeks ago I asked Pelican about the problem and if there was a "time line" for the issue.

"Hi Magnus, I've asked around, checked with the vendor and poked around the internet and have not been able to find a time stamp for when the bearings in question were manufactured, sorry. I suspect it was just a few isolated sets, but again, I haven't had any luck getting detailed information from anyone."

Hasn't anyone complained?

[Steam Driver]

I too have been in touch with Pelican about this issue and considering the importance of it have gotten what I consider rather cavalier responses. One was incredulous all things considered. (Keep in mind this was only last week!) I think the Pelican respondees name was something like Bob Windell, or something like that. His response was that it was the first time he had heard of an an issue like this!

How long has this thread and it's predecessors been going on? Does he/they have their collective heads under a rock or something? This is a significant issue that could have a significant impact on their overall parts business. Someone with their "volume clout" needs to take this up with Glyco now.

I too have been trying to source Clevites with no success. There is no listing for any Porsche bearings in either their master catalog or their later light engine catalog supplement. There are Audi and VW listings, no Porsche at all. They do have listings for a lot of obscure engines I've never heard of though. FYI Clevite seems to be owned by or is part of Mahle, which makes the lack of Porsche bearings even more baffling.

[VFR750]

I would assume Pelican Parts is not in a position to review every post for possible trends in part performance.

If the parts were purchased through pp, and failed, and the buyer complained, they might then have a database to go from. I suspect this is the reason they give a bland answer.

I too am thinking alternatives...

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by VFR750

I would assume Pelican Parts is not in a position to review every post for possible trends in part performance.

Try manufacturing and selling your own bearings here, as an alternative to the Glycos, and I suspect you'll quickly find that the folks at PP are indeed watching.

[Steam Driver]

My thoughts on this were that I have the impression from this and other threads on the subject that enough people have inquired about the situation that you would think everyone would at least be aware of it, if not actually tracking it and trying to find out what's going on.

[E Sully]

Some of the posters make it sound like this is happening regularly, yet when I contacted Glyco their response was "We never had any problems with bearings for Porsche applications."
Why have their been no bad bearings sent in under warrenty if this is the fault of the bearing?

[KTL]

Ed,

I think you're underestimating the situation. Some folks with a long history of building these engines apparently have gotten no satisfaction from Glyco and had to move on to find an alternate solution. Automobile Associates in CT is a very experienced shop & I would tend to trust their observations on this issue. We should be thankful that they are willing to share this info. when apparently Glyco is shirking responsibility, assuming installation or operator error.

Here's another thread with a little more detail on the Clevite substitute

Glyco rod bearing wear

[Steam Driver]

I would think it would be difficult to get any satisfaction out of Glyco at any level. Too many mitigating factors with the product; cleanliness of the installation, assembly, etc they could point too as an excuse. And unfortunately in a lot cases they could be right! And if you can prove their product was the issue, what is their compensation going to be, another $60 set of bearings? What about the rest of the pricey engine parts that were trashed because of their faulty product? Or the labor to put it all right? Good luck getting that.

I checked a local parts store today (O'Reilly's Auto Parts - Chattanooga's a chain store town) about Clevite bearings. Yes they do sell Clevite, but they have no listing of them for any Porsche in either their on-line or paper catalogs.

[wndsnd]

Someone with the knowledge and time has crossed referenced a domestic bearing size to our rod size. Someone is getting $390 for this knowledge and part and others are getting a little less.
They are probably $60.00 or close to the Glyco's in actual cost.

I am not convinced Glyco has a problem either. But why risk a build?

[tom1394racing]

Originally Posted by crummasel

OK, could you please name a source for Clevites please?

Scott McPherson at Auto Associates in Canton, CT has replacement Clevites available. He has 2.0-2.2, 2.4-2.7 for std journals and also for cranks with first under on the rods. He also has 3.2-3.6 in STD only.

The shop number is 860-693-0278

[GT2BH]

I emailed and unfortunately no rod bearings for the 3.0

[Steam Driver]

I contacted Summit Racing, who has Clevite for about everything else, about Porsche Bearings. Here is their reply:

"Subject
#TAG# Engine Component Question

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Brad) 09/20/2014 10:47 AM
Thank you for your email

I show zero listings for Porsche in the Clevite catalogs.

We appreciate your business
Brad
Summit Racing Equipment"

So, if there are Clevite bearings for the 911, where are they coming from?

[Walt Fricke]

Warranty? Race parts in an 8,000 rpm motor?

[Steam Driver]

I don't think there would ever be a situation where Glyco would accept any responsibility; too many obvious differences in builders, applications, etc. But like wndsnd "why risk a build?" And this is a PITA to me because I am ready to start screwing an engine back together but one of the most basic building blocks is questionable.

I think there're enough horror stories coming up that don't involve race motors that there is cause for concern and to give credibility to this thread. Where there's smoke there's generally a fire around someplace. Not to mention that there would always be that thing in the back of your mind "when is it going to throw craps on me?"

I guess the only thing to do at this point is wait and see if something shakes out, one way or another.

[JonT]

I had fresh rebuild on my 3.6 go down (spun bearing again) after only a few track sessions. What a kick to the groin. And that was after a 2 year waiting period while my mechanic worked on it. Glyco bearings were used. The forensics on the crank showed evidence of oil contamination and the rods were not resized to accommodate the ARP rod bolts. Car was running warm on the track so I was cutting sessions short on the DE. So point is multiple factors at play. Bottom line is I have to find another source for rod bearings but it sounds like the local Porsche dealership has factory 3.6 bearings--is this not the case for the other sizes?

[neilca]

I wonder if this wasn't the cause of my problem, Did detonation kill my bottom end? , I had thought it was my mods. My engine is going back to the 66mm crank so hopefully we wont have a repeat.

[Steam Driver]

JonT I don't think dealership parts will be of any help; Glyco is the supplier for them too. And therein lies the problem; Glyco seems to be the supplier for everyone.