OT. why you shouldn't try to run

[EZ-RIDER]

You're missing the point!

[martincito]

Originally Posted by EZ-RIDER

So you're telling me that it's Okay to come here illegally and break our laws

I think immigration is a very complex economic issue and is not about breaking laws.
If the illegal immigrants are coming here is because the economy of the country need them as much as they need the american dollars.
In economic terms would be negative legalized them or deport them.
In moral term is o whole different story and vary accordingly with each one's ideological thinking.

[cageyar]

Speak English, for God's sake..........nobody can follow your lingo.......

[martincito]

In this thread we discussed about, cops, guns, immigration.
We just need a little bit of religion and health insurance to complete it.

[EZ-RIDER]

Do you think maybe the Country they are leaving may have more to do with it ? I understand Why, but I don't think it's Right! and if the rolls were reversed say Americans flooding to Argentina without paperwork how long would your Government put up with it ?

[PFFOG]

I can't relate to the problems in the South, but up here was have a lot of migrant, and permanent farm workers. Some legal, some with forged papers.

All I can tell you is they work their A$$ES off, harvesting fruit, and vegetables, long hours and in all kinds of weather, incl snow. If they were not here your food $$ would soar. And they displace no-one, the farmers cannot find local workers to do the job, and it pays well, many make $40-$50K/ year which is a good wage in this area.

Most of the Dairy workers are immigrants too, same deal some legal, some with forged papers, but they are hard workers for sure.


And the farmers are paying payroll taxes even on the illegals, many of whom will never use and Government services, due to fear of being deported.

Maybe if we made it a little easier for those that want to come and be productive members of society to do so, then controlling the illegals and boarders might get easier. Heck most Americans dread going to the DMV to register our cars, think what the Immigrants have to go through. Back in the Ellis Island days, I believe it was easier and quicker to gain entry to the country.

[martincito]

Originally Posted by EZ-RIDER

Do you think maybe the Country they are leaving may have more to do with it ? I understand Why, but I don't think it's Right! and if the rolls were reversed say Americans flooding to Argentina without paperwork how long would your Government put up with it ?

Americans flooding to Argentina?. I'd love it. That would definitely make Argentina an honest and efficient country.
There is a lot illegal immigration in Argentina from poorer countries around there. Peru, Paraguay, Bolivia. They get discriminated for their native aspect compared with the more European local look. It is a serious racist country.
The Argentinean Government can put up with everything if the bribe is big enough.

[Bigred455]

Re: Guns

Very interesting points from both sides of the fence. I do not live in fear and actually do not think I will ever have a gun drawn on me in a threatening manner from a non police offer. BUT with that said I'd prefer mor people to carry a weapon. I believe in texas you can even carry a pistol in plain site with any classes or formal training, but you do have to have a license to carry it concealed.

As the saying goes: fences only keep honest people out. If you are breaking into a home and you have your choice of two. One is armed and the other in not, which would you enter? Id prefer to live in the armed home myself. And not because I'm fearful but because im vigilant.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Bigred455

I believe in texas you can even carry a pistol in plain site with any classes or formal training, but you do have to have a license to carry it concealed.

No, you're thinking of AZ, which has open carry, though the new law that no longer requires a permit to CCW goes into effect in a few mos. TX still makes it a class C felony to open carry. I see it pretty regularly in AZ though.

[MaineRoads]

Maine also has open carry.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by MaineRoads

Maine also has open carry.

didn't know that, cool...now...if only winter wasn't such a beotch.

[sgoodwin]

Originally Posted by OwenM

That was my point, if you commit a felony you’re “right” to own a firearm is revoked.
At what point does a right become a privilege?

I don't believe a right should ever become a privelage. Unfortunately politicians as always have managed to chip away at our rights for their gain. The rights lost are being slowly regained through courts & legislatures throughout the country. Concealed carry used to be rare but now is common as laws change or are enacted to protect our rights. It is a slow process to regain them but they disappeared slowly too.

[SergioK]

Originally Posted by martincito

The Argentinean Government can put up with everything if the bribe is big enough.

I still remember when the former President (Menem) had the Army pave/setup a runway/airport at his house in the countryside. Thanks taxpayers!

[CoffeeGuy]

Quote de Bob K.

Undoubtedly he should; however the question remains, would he have exited his vehicle gun drawn and shot the guy on the bike if he did not believe he was armed?

The way I see it- there's no reason the officer should have believed the rider was armed. Just because the US might be considered an "armed" society- doesn't mean every person pulled over is reaching for a weapon. Bad judgement and poor decision making ended tragically for the rider. It's unfortunate, and sad.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

I don't believe a right should ever become a privelage. Unfortunately politicians as always have managed to chip away at our rights for their gain. The rights lost are being slowly regained through courts & legislatures throughout the country. Concealed carry used to be rare but now is common as laws change or are enacted to protect our rights. It is a slow process to regain them but they disappeared slowly too.

Some civil rights have long been mere privileges for convicted felons. Such people lose their rights to own a gun, vote, usually must give DNA samples while in jail and, in some instances, waive their 4th Amendment rights when on parole. There is a process for having one's rights restored, but it's usually a matter of state law. I'm not a real fan of this, but it's been around since the Constitution was written and I also don't plan to ever become a convicted felon.

[Guest24]

Originally Posted by OwenM

That was my point, if you commit a felony you’re “right” to own a firearm is revoked.
At what point does a right become a privilege?

Owen, I consider it to be a privilege to be a citizen of the United States of America. I'm sure you feel the same about being a citizen of Australia. Our countries are vastly different in their laws and traditions. I think that's what makes our passions on these issues so very different. I make no apologies for me or my country to no one and ask no apology of them in return.

One thing this forum seems to do with great acumen is rush to a judgement without being in possession of all the facts. I'll not judge the officer unless I'm a juror who is presented the facts under the laws which bear on the issue.

[MrFeldman]

Originally Posted by OwenM

Yes, well, sorry to say that’s the sort of thing that happens in a gun crazy society.

Dude,..I don't know what its like down under but the USA is "not" a gun crazy society, There's just a few folks who (for what ever reason) can't handle the authority given them and sadly some of those are police. the tragedy of it is they give us normal,regular,law abiding gun owning citizens a bad reputation.

[lightfighter]

Originally Posted by MrFeldman

Dude,..I don't know what its like down under but the USA is "not" a gun crazy society, There's just a few folks who (for what ever reason) can't handle the authority given them and sadly some of those are police. the tragedy of it is they give us normal,regular,law abiding gun owning citizens a bad reputation.

kinda like those the minority @$$ hats on motorcycles than make my mother think we are all screaming to the scene of the crash at warp 3. people who act right dont make good news stories.

[OwenM]

The US has by far the greatest number of privately owned guns per head of population of any country on earth with around 90 guns per 100 people, that’s 50% more than the next down the list which is Yemen and 57% more than war torn countries like Iraq. If illegally held guns are included there are more guns in the US than there are people and a large number of those are hand guns, if that’s not “gun crazy” what is?

In comparison Germany has about 30 guns per 100 people, Australia 15.5 and the UK 5.6, of those very few are hand guns, the numbers speak for themselves.

Gun owning Americans seem very touchy about this topic but it would be interesting to hear what non gun owning Americans think.

[Bob Hancock]

Originally Posted by OwenM

Gun owning Americans seem very touchy about this topic but it would be interesting to hear what non gun owning Americans think.

Sorry mate....can't. They all moved to Australia.