Mrs & I need bikes, Houston MS 150, complete beginners

[look 171]

I wouldn't worry much about it being 8 spd as long as you have mid range gears for the flats and lower gears for climbing. Will there be long steep climbs on this ride? After the bike, general riding is needed so you can be one with your machine then the real riding starts. This is the time you really learn about your gears and your strength. I am a spinner not a gear masher. This saves my leg for longer distances until I need to push the big gears to try and kill off the others. We can get into that and how to conserve energy later.

[look 171]

Another note, any bike around 1000 bucks will not have aggressive geometry but a slightly more relax sports riding bike. Talking road bike here. IMO, you have to work harder on a gravel bike then a typical road bike. Just the weight of the wheels will kill ya. Just my dumb opinion since I have never ridden a gravel, but have trained with heavier tires and wheels (not as much or as heavy as those gravel tires). Why drag the extra weight up the hill. A heavy bike is almost unnoticeable when riding, but heavy wheels will be like dragging a ball and chain. Lighter the wheels, the faster you go or easier going forward or up hill.

[MFAFF]

Originally Posted by masraum;10292922
This is another that I'm wondering about and is a gravel bike with drop bars.
[url

https://masibikes.com/collections/gravel-road/products/cxgr-2019[/url]

This is the type of bike that would probably best suit you and your intended ride.

The geometry is relaxed and you sit a little bit more upright than a 'road' bike making it more comfortable over a couple of days. The wheelbase will be longer and hence handling less aggressive.

Dropped bars are helpful that you can easily and safely vary your hand position (tops/ hoods/ drops) over time to ensure you do not get stiff or pains in a a particular position.

The drivetrain is sufficient; ideally you would have a Shimano 105 set but that will be more expensive. Mechanical discs are good... certainly better than rim brakes in terms of power and consistency at this price point.

The key though, for me, is that it rides on 35mm wide tyres (one thing to check when buying is just how large a tyre you can run)... and running at say 60psi the overall comfort will be far higher than a road bike. It makes a massive difference to overall fatigue if you are spending the majority of the day riding. The Kendra tyres as spec'd are 30tpi and thus fairly 'stiff and inflexible' at that size. It is relatively inexpensive to replace these with some 'better' tyres, say Panaracer Gravel Kings which are more supple = more comfort

I have a few bikes....including an alloy framed, carbon forked gravel bike. Whilst I have the Shimano 105 drive train and Ultra hydraulic discs it is pretty similar to the Masi.... and for all day riding or even my usual 100km weekend commute it is pretty darn nice.
I run 35mm in the winter and when I know I'm going on gravel roads/ foot paths etc and 30mm when I know I'll only be on tarmac. Yes there is a speed difference, some 15% or so. That being said the 35mm tyre ride is more comfortable and the additional time is not an issue. If I am riding with others and not in a hurry then the additional comfort is welcome.

As you have an intended ride then perhaps working out how you will achieve it (length of time riding, stops you can/ have to make) will inform the bike that you buy. For example you want to do this with your wife and perhaps you want to spend that time riding together, chatting away, helping when needed etc. It might be that you want to get it done in 4 hours of riding....or are happy with 5 or 5 1/2 hours. A more comfortable machine that doesn't require constant attention to the road, pot holes, drain covers etc might be more suited to this ride and your intentions around it.

Above all make it fun....

[masraum]

Originally Posted by zakthor

Only 8 speeds: Realize that number of speeds is different than gear range. The high and low gear can be made the same on a 2x5 speed and on a modern 2x12 speed, the 2x12 just gives more choices. For a racer it's important to be able to pick the perfect gear but you... It really isn't important.

That was why I talked to the guy about changing the cassette, and then later about the chainring.

He said that he could upgrade from the 8 to a 10 and then upgrade the chainring to give me more options for hills and cruising. I don't remember the details.

Part of learning distance riding is getting the strength and flexibility to ride lower. The aero benefits are huge compared to an upright hybrid. I think you'll be sorry if you get a hybrid...

If you can find one that fits a used bike is a much better value than new. I hope someone here can help you find one.

I had wondered about used and Redbeard was going to ask around some of his riding buddies to see if they had any bikes they were looking to sell. There are some bikes on Craigslist that are my size and the size for the missus. My concern is getting a bike that's been beat to hell (if I find it myself. If redbeard comes up with something, I'd be confident in the quality) or stolen. I don't want to buy a stolen bike.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by look 171

Another note, any bike around 1000 bucks will not have aggressive geometry but a slightly more relax sports riding bike. Talking road bike here. IMO, you have to work harder on a gravel bike then a typical road bike. Just the weight of the wheels will kill ya. Just my dumb opinion since I have never ridden a gravel, but have trained with heavier tires and wheels (not as much or as heavy as those gravel tires). Why drag the extra weight up the hill. A heavy bike is almost unnoticeable when riding, but heavy wheels will be like dragging a ball and chain. Lighter the wheels, the faster you go or easier going forward or up hill.

The main reason for the tires is comfort. It's the difference between a 70 series tire on 15" wheels and a 35 series tire on 19" wheels.

My buddy went into BB and they started showing him expensive bikes. He told the guy "I want to finish, not win." We don't want to be the slowest folks out there, but we aren't going to be racing anyone either. And the roads around here are absolute crap, so having a more comfortable tire will help not just with comfort, but I think help protect against issues if we hit hard edges or potholes.

[recycled sixtie]

When you mention potholes then I think of mountain bikes as being the best able to handle them. Having said that you likely want to go faster and be more streamlined and don't mind the head down position of the road bikes.

For myself I prefer the more upright posture of a mountain bike and the tires/wheels can handle coming off the curve.

I find I can get pretty good exercise from a mountain bike. Equipment? I am a great believer in a rear view mirror as it has saved me a couple of times. Perhaps this does not fit in to being streamlined. Just my thoughts...

[David]

Steve, Redbeard is a good source and I’ve been doing a lot a riding lately too. I’m curious what size the bike shop put you on? You seem more a 60cm size to me.

I can help you with any repairs if you do go used and feel free to text me a pic of anything you find and I’ll reply back as quick as I can.

I’m tempted to loan you a bike but then I’d loose my occasional riding partner, my nextdoor neighbor.

I tried going single front chain ring but it didn’t cope with Houston riding. I personally like a pretty close ratio cassette because on flatlands you’ll spend a lot of time in one gear and if the available gear ratio puts you in an uncomfortably high or low cadence it stops being fun.

I plan on riding the MS150 next year after a one year hiatus.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by MFAFF

This is the type of bike that would probably best suit you and your intended ride.

The geometry is relaxed and you sit a little bit more upright than a 'road' bike making it more comfortable over a couple of days. The wheelbase will be longer and hence handling less aggressive.

Dropped bars are helpful that you can easily and safely vary your hand position (tops/ hoods/ drops) over time to ensure you do not get stiff or pains in a a particular position.

The drivetrain is sufficient; ideally you would have a Shimano 105 set but that will be more expensive. Mechanical discs are good... certainly better than rim brakes in terms of power and consistency at this price point.

The key though, for me, is that it rides on 35mm wide tyres (one thing to check when buying is just how large a tyre you can run)... and running at say 60psi the overall comfort will be far higher than a road bike. It makes a massive difference to overall fatigue if you are spending the majority of the day riding. The Kendra tyres as spec'd are 30tpi and thus fairly 'stiff and inflexible' at that size. It is relatively inexpensive to replace these with some 'better' tyres, say Panaracer Gravel Kings which are more supple = more comfort

I have a few bikes....including an alloy framed, carbon forked gravel bike. Whilst I have the Shimano 105 drive train and Ultra hydraulic discs it is pretty similar to the Masi.... and for all day riding or even my usual 100km weekend commute it is pretty darn nice.
I run 35mm in the winter and when I know I'm going on gravel roads/ foot paths etc and 30mm when I know I'll only be on tarmac. Yes there is a speed difference, some 15% or so. That being said the 35mm tyre ride is more comfortable and the additional time is not an issue. If I am riding with others and not in a hurry then the additional comfort is welcome.

As you have an intended ride then perhaps working out how you will achieve it (length of time riding, stops you can/ have to make) will inform the bike that you buy. For example you want to do this with your wife and perhaps you want to spend that time riding together, chatting away, helping when needed etc. It might be that you want to get it done in 4 hours of riding....or are happy with 5 or 5 1/2 hours. A more comfortable machine that doesn't require constant attention to the road, pot holes, drain covers etc might be more suited to this ride and your intentions around it.

Above all make it fun....

We have both discussed that comfort is one of the big considerations and then reliability (quality shifting that doesn't need frequent adjustment).

[vmb]

I'll second zakthor's comments on finding the RIGHT saddle, and to get some miles in before the ride to make sure that that particular contact point is good for the duration. Many, many years ago I did the MS150 (Cleveland to Cedar Point and back) with a GF and she bailed shortly after starting day 2 due to saddle issues. I figure the ride will be more enjoyable for the both of you if you both can finish together! Good luck and have fun!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by vmb

I'll second zakthor's comments on finding the RIGHT saddle, and to get some miles in before the ride to make sure that that particular contact point is good for the duration. Many, many years ago I did the MS150 (Cleveland to Cedar Point and back) with a GF and she bailed shortly after starting day 2 due to saddle issues. I figure the ride will be more enjoyable for the both of you if you both can finish together! Good luck and have fun!

The Haro that I posted above has a spectacular saddle. The guy at the shop said that it was the same as one of the WTB saddles, so we are already planning to swap that on whatever we get. Some of them felt like you were sitting on a couple of ice skates with the blades digging into your rear, not pleasant at all.

[stevej37]

The right wearing gear is important!

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by masraum

The Haro that I posted above has a spectacular saddle. The guy at the shop said that it was the same as one of the WTB saddles, so we are already planning to swap that on whatever we get. Some of them felt like you were sitting on a couple of ice skates with the blades digging into your rear, not pleasant at all.

You have to ride a particular bike/component setup for a reasonable distance to evaluate comfort/fit.

2 of my 4 bikes have simple contoured carbon saddles w/ just a thin cover, but they are sooo comfortable when spending hours in the saddle. Different phenotypes will want different contours. Another consideration is that you are going to be constantly moving around in the saddle, this is an often overlooked factor, you want a frictionless interface.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by David

Steve, Redbeard is a good source and I’ve been doing a lot a riding lately too. I’m curious what size the bike shop put you on? You seem more a 60cm size to me.

I can help you with any repairs if you do go used and feel free to text me a pic of anything you find and I’ll reply back as quick as I can.

I’m tempted to loan you a bike but then I’d loose my occasional riding partner, my nextdoor neighbor.

I tried going single front chain ring but it didn’t cope with Houston riding. I personally like a pretty close ratio cassette because on flatlands you’ll spend a lot of time in one gear and if the available gear ratio puts you in an uncomfortably high or low cadence it stops being fun.

I plan on riding the MS150 next year after a one year hiatus.

Agreed, I've had 9, 10 & 11 speed cassettes, each extra gear adds to the experience.

Another decision is the crank set design which influences overall gearing. There are 3 main 2 gear crank designs out there,
compact 34/50
semi-compact 36/52
old normal 39/53
each has strengths and weaknesses

compact cranks w/ 34/50 gearing allow the less fit to impart more torque to the wheel, it is great for climbing, but less so on the flats(if you can pull taller gearing which is a function of fitness)
old normal is the standard 39/53 crank, itt allows the highest gearing which makes for more speed(if you can pull it) but at the same time limits climbing torque.

the semi-compact is in between

I have a full carbon bike w/ 11 speed compact, it is most used for solo rides where I wont be pushing as hard, I also have a custom Ti w/ 11 speed semi compact, this is the choice for fast competitive group rides, a third is an al. knock around 10 speed compact w/ platform pedals, I use this winters and when the weather isn't so nice, the platform pedals allow you to plant a foot much more quickly if necessary, this is slowest by far but also most versatile.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by masraum

The main reason for the tires is comfort. It's the difference between a 70 series tire on 15" wheels and a 35 series tire on 19" wheels.

My buddy went into BB and they started showing him expensive bikes. He told the guy "I want to finish, not win." We don't want to be the slowest folks out there, but we aren't going to be racing anyone either. And the roads around here are absolute crap, so having a more comfortable tire will help not just with comfort, but I think help protect against issues if we hit hard edges or potholes.

the typical road tire choices are 23mm, 25mm, 28mm, I'd look for 25mm as the best compromise, but 28s do have their attractions, either would do.

25 & 28 generally seem more grippy and puncture proof than 23s but a lot depends on the roads and speeds

wheels make a big difference too, I've hit potholes w/ my carbon wheels that would have destroyed aluminum(they did destroy the tires and tubes) but it's not necessary to have carbon wheels. That said a little better wheel is worth a lot

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by masraum

I figured out the problem. I looked at and am thinking about a gravel bike, but it's got drop bars. The other bike that has the straight bars is an urban/commuter bike.
https://haromtb.com/products/beasley-27-5-2019

It was REALLY comfy. I doubt the gearing would be adequate for the MS 150. It's only got 8 speeds. I was talking to the guy at the shop. He said that he could swap out the bars for drop bars and upgrade the chain ring and swap the cassette from an 8 speed to a 10 speed to give me more range of gearing.

This is another that I'm wondering about and is a gravel bike with drop bars.
https://masibikes.com/collections/gravel-road/products/cxgr-2019

Not pushing any particular bike but something like this would be more appropriate for long road rides
Canondale CAAD

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Not pushing any particular bike but something like this would be more appropriate for long road rides
Canondale CAAD

That's a lot of bike for the money. But that thing and you will not need anything else. If you are concern about crappy roads, see about fitting 28mm tires on there and play with tire pressure to dial in more comfort. Yes, that will ride like a 75 series tire instead of a 35. I use 25 mm tires with 100 psi on my Saturday ride because I need all the advantage I can get because the guys draw blood. On solo longer rides, its always at 90-95 psi. While not a huge difference, but the comfort can be felt easily. On 28mm tires, you should be able to get away with 85psi and the ride will still feel lively and fast and not have that flat bouncy flat tire feel to it.

[look 171]

Oh, I suggest don't judge that photo with the way the handlebar is set up. For you try and pull that handlebar level with the saddle or even 1" above it for the ride. If you encounter a huge head wind, bend your elbows and get aero to get over the wind storm. if not, just ride through it normally and you will be fine. People think you have to go into a full aero tuck, not true. Just get a few inches lower and the difference if huge.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

When you mention potholes then I think of mountain bikes as being the best able to handle them. Having said that you likely want to go faster and be more streamlined and don't mind the head down position of the road bikes.

For myself I prefer the more upright posture of a mountain bike and the tires/wheels can handle coming off the curve.

I find I can get pretty good exercise from a mountain bike. Equipment? I am a great believer in a rear view mirror as it has saved me a couple of times. Perhaps this does not fit in to being streamlined. Just my thoughts...

That's the thing about gravel bikes, they have wheels/tires almost more like a mountain bike than a road bike except for the agressive knobby tires of MTB.
https://curbsidecycle.com/blogs/blog/why-gravel-bikes

Like the sport-touring bikes of old, a gravel bike also makes a great commuter bike - especially if distances are longer. Unlike a road racing bike, a gravel bike is made for rough surfaces or dirt trails. That means it needs to have strong wheels, perfect for city streets (road bikes generally do not have strong wheels!).

The great thing about gravel bikes is just how perfect they are for commuting. In fact, the gravel bike has a deep origins with longer distance bike commuters who wanted drop-bars, tough wheels, and tires to battle potholes. All gravel bikes use strong wheels, grippy tires, a good range of gears, and powerful disc brakes for sudden stops. The drop bar provides multi-positions for longer rides and all of the bikes we sell have room for fenders and racks.

Originally Posted by David

Steve, Redbeard is a good source and I’ve been doing a lot a riding lately too. I’m curious what size the bike shop put you on? You seem more a 60cm size to me.

I can help you with any repairs if you do go used and feel free to text me a pic of anything you find and I’ll reply back as quick as I can.

I’m tempted to loan you a bike but then I’d loose my occasional riding partner, my nextdoor neighbor.

I tried going single front chain ring but it didn’t cope with Houston riding. I personally like a pretty close ratio cassette because on flatlands you’ll spend a lot of time in one gear and if the available gear ratio puts you in an uncomfortably high or low cadence it stops being fun.

I plan on riding the MS150 next year after a one year hiatus.

Most of the folks that looked at me said "58". WHen I look at the various charts on websites, it says that for long limbed guys my size a 58 is good and for shorter limbed guys a 60 would be better. I think I'm average to long limbed. I'm only 6'1.5", so a bit shorter than you.

I thought the single might be a little limiting, especially trying to get from Houston to Austin. They do call it "hill country". I think I could change the gearing, but then as you say, I wouldn't have the ability to get into just the right gear to be comfy. I'd be able to get into a gear that was close. I think I'm looking at last years model of the Masi CXGR which is a 3x8 vs the current year which is 2x8.

[masraum]

Thanks guys

[aigel]

I would stay away from a gravel bike unless you want to ride on gravel. They are a fad and everyone I know who bought one is tired of them. People go back to a road bike on the road and even on gravel races, unless they are very flat and straight rides, light weight hard tail MTBs.

A Robaix style road bike will be perfect and as mentioned, the 25mm tires will be a great compromise. You guys aren't 300 lbs and new to exercise, so you don't need some grandpa bike. Start out with a more upright / relaxed setting on the stem and start dropping it as your body adjusts.

On chain / cassette wear, check the chain and if it is stretched replace. Here is a great guide on how to check 3 ways:
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/when-to-replace-a-chain-on-a-bicycle
My experience is that I can run about 4 chains per cassette, before the cassette starts to wear significantly visibly. I get about 2k miles on the road / commute bikes, and about 1200 miles on the MTB (where I pick up a lot more abrasives in dust / mud).

G