Debunk this... Cmdr. David Fravor

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by zakthor

I love this sort of stuff... Great example of how science works. Got unexplained phenomenon, how do we proceed?

Similar to flat earth and fake lunar landings... We can shoot for the sky and turn everything upside down, giant govt conspiracies 'n secret labs. Theres lots of valid hypothesis. Until theres more facts in this case you get to pick from a myriad of explanations.

I figure all thinking people are hoping this is aliens or some new physics, who wouldnt want new coolness to expand human knowledge?

My gut says its something minor but my fingers are crossed.

Whats tragic though is when people start acting like the crazy theories are real. Ive spent time with lunar landing deniers and man their world models are a disjointed mess.

Yea, Occam's Razor is the first thing to apply.

There is little doubt that somewhere out in the giant universe is intelligence that have been around for over a million years. Humans are maybe 35,000 years old and technology really happened in the last few hundred.

From the first powered airplane to fly to men walking on the moon was just 66 years.


I took this picture of the display right here in Oklahoma.

The challenge and energy needed to travel interstellar distances is simply vast. I have no idea what those objects were. Hopefully it was some gizmos developed at Area 51. We know now the SR71 and Stealth bomber and fighter were the cause of many "UFO" sightings back in the era they were developed.

Before the movie Close Encounters of the Third kind was made, extraterrestrial beings were described as looking different. Now almost everyone says they are little grey naked dudes with giant heads and big eyes.

[tabs]

Betty and Barney Hill described them in 1962 as being Little Greys.

They were the first of the lost time alien abduction cases... where under hypnosis they were able to recover the memories of their experience. the book that recounted their story is "Interrupted Journey"

When leaving the UFO Betty asked one of the Greys about a star map that was being displayed, where the Grey answered those are places we visit and trade with. When recreating what she saw there was an UNKNOWN star at the time on the map that was discovered some 7 years later in 1969.


As a kid in the mid 60's I remember seeing the Hills on a talk show recounting their experiences... Further my Shrink friend as a Phd candidate graduate advisor had a student working on a Phd on Alien abduction cases....His only comment was that, "Something did happen to those people."

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by tabs

Betty and Barney Hill described them in 1962 as being Little Greys.

They were the first of the lost time alien abduction cases... where under hypnosis they were able to recover the memories of their experience. the book that recounted their story is "Interrupted Journey"

When leaving the UFO Betty asked one of the Greys about a star map that was being displayed, where the Grey answered those are places we visit and trade with. When recreating what she saw there was an UNKNOWN star at the time on the map that was discovered some 7 years later in 1969.


As a kid in the mid 60's I remember seeing the Hills on a talk show recounting their experiences... Further my Shrink friend as a Phd candidate graduate advisor had a student working on a Phd on Alien abduction cases....His only comment was that, "Something did happen to those people."

Look up their articles:

The men stood about five feet to five feet four inches tall, and wore matching blue uniforms, with caps similar to those worn by military cadets. They appeared nearly human, with black hair, dark eyes, prominent noses and bluish lips. Their skin was a greyish colour.[19]

OK, they have ashen skin, lots of humans do to. That is a LONG long way from the clip below.

A long way from this:



Now almost all of the extraterrestrials are described like the critters in the movie.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

very interesting, watched the whole thing, the hipster looking dude didn't bring anything to the subject

Cmdr. David Fravor came across as very credible, must be more out there like him and Seahawk with eye witness stories to tell

[tabs]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Look up their articles:

The men stood about five feet to five feet four inches tall, and wore matching blue uniforms, with caps similar to those worn by military cadets. They appeared nearly human, with black hair, dark eyes, prominent noses and bluish lips. Their skin was a greyish colour.[19]

OK, they have ashen skin, lots of humans do to. That is a LONG long way from the clip below.

A long way from this:



Now almost all of the extraterrestrials are described like the critters in the movie.

Barney described beings wearing shiny black uniforms with spindly legs, a bulky torso and cat-like eyes...Concord Monitor

https://www.concordmonitor.com/In-Lincoln-a-UFO-story-that-is-out-of-this-world-15987667

So we have lots of versions of what the Hills saw. As evidenced above.

In the book there is a drawing made by one of the Hills. Which is the basic Little grey version.

Of course the pix you show is Hollywoods rendition.

Maybe you have "spindly legs" so that would not seem abnormal to you.

[GH85Carrera]

Did you see his wife's description as they were "almost human" so the both see the same thing and come up with totally different descriptions. Like they just made it all up.

The galaxy is just a really big place. Let's assume that today I discover the Star Trek wap drive secret, and give the world full warp drive up to warp 9.9 like the movies and TV show. It is pitifully slow for this big solar system, much less the galaxy.

https://www.businessinsider.sg/star-trek-warp-light-speed-reality-travel-nasa-animation-2019-1/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2cjvcbBIc3DEx7aidT6DNCkPuHwbIG7JBvVmqgO VY3EHTZWR4aJ-tKj2k#Echobox=1570500042

[BK911]

Only issue I have with the "little greys" is I'm guessing evolved humans will look more like those in wall-e due to more conveniences and laziness. I'm assuming other intelligent societies will evolve similarly.

[Rusty Heap]

we are still cavemen when it comes to Technology and Physics.



Many things out there, we just can't fathom.


only just over 100 years ago, still hadn't figured out if we should use AC or DC for our nations power grid. We still used ICE boxes as refridgeration.


your Phone vs the Lunar landing processors?

To put that into more concrete terms, the latest phones typically have 4GB of RAM. That is 34,359,738,368 bits. This is more than one million (1,048,576 to be exact) times more memory than the Apollo computer had in RAM. The iPhone also has up to 512GB of ROM memory. That is 4,398,046,511,104 bits, which is more seven million times more than that of the guidance computer.

But memory isn’t the only thing that matters. The Apollo 11 computer had a processor – an electronic circuit that performs operations on external data sources – which ran at 0.043 MHz. The latest iPhone’s processor is estimated to run at about 2490 MHz. Apple do not advertise the processing speed, but others have calculated it. This means that the iPhone in your pocket has over 100,000 times the processing power of the computer that landed man on the moon 50 years ago.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Rusty Heap

we are still cavemen when it comes to Technology and Physics.



Many things out there, we just can't fathom.


only just over 100 years ago, still hadn't figured out if we should use AC or DC for our nations power grid. We still used ICE boxes as refridgeration.


your Phone vs the Lunar landing processors?

To put that into more concrete terms, the latest phones typically have 4GB of RAM. That is 34,359,738,368 bits. This is more than one million (1,048,576 to be exact) times more memory than the Apollo computer had in RAM. The iPhone also has up to 512GB of ROM memory. That is 4,398,046,511,104 bits, which is more seven million times more than that of the guidance computer.

But memory isn’t the only thing that matters. The Apollo 11 computer had a processor – an electronic circuit that performs operations on external data sources – which ran at 0.043 MHz. The latest iPhone’s processor is estimated to run at about 2490 MHz. Apple do not advertise the processing speed, but others have calculated it. This means that the iPhone in your pocket has over 100,000 times the processing power of the computer that landed man on the moon 50 years ago.

I still use my old iPhone 6S. It has 128Gig of RAM. I am still amazed at that. When I finally do upgrade I will get a new iPhone with at least 512 Gig.

The Apollo computer was the first computer to use direct input from the user to do different tasks.

The Inertial measurement unit, or IMU is how they kept track of where they were. It was the size of a small fridge. You have a IMU in your smart phone the size of a pin head. It lets the phone know when you move it up to your head to turn off the display, and is used to calculate you movement and how far you walked.

[IROC]

I used to be hard core into all this stuff. Especially the alien abduction stuff, lost-time events, etc. Probably started when my Dad took me to see "Chariots of the Gods" in the '70s...

After a while though, it become like Bigfoot sightings. Years and years of sightings and stories from "credible" witnesses, etc., but in the end...no evidence that any of it is true. None. I am also fundamentally skeptical that an organization as inept as our government could keep something like this a "secret" for decades.

So...I became "agnostic" when it comes to this stuff. I want to believe very badly but I just can't until somebody comes forward with some actual evidence. Was it Sagan who said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"?

Still waiting on some extraordinary evidence...

Until then, I'll watch the Joe Rogan video...

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by IROC

I used to be hard core into all this stuff. Especially the alien abduction stuff, lost-time events, etc. Probably started when my Dad took me to see "Chariots of the Gods" in the '70s...

After a while though, it become like Bigfoot sightings. Years and years of sightings and stories from "credible" witnesses, etc., but in the end...no evidence that any of it is true. None. I am also fundamentally skeptical that an organization as inept as our government could keep something like this a "secret" for decades.

So...I became "agnostic" when it comes to this stuff. I want to believe very badly but I just can't until somebody comes forward with some actual evidence. Was it Sagan who said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"?

Still waiting on some extraordinary evidence...

Until then, I'll watch the Joe Rogan video...

That is what I feel as well. I wish there was even a tiny scintilla of real evidence. Not one speck of evidence exists. Then the reality of the mind boggling size of the universe we live in just makes it very very unlikely that we will ever have proof of extraterrestrials, much less communicate with them or have them visit us.

[David]

Originally Posted by 74-911

Some food for thought:

The Fermi Paradox: Where the Hell Are the Other Earths?

https://gizmodo.com/the-fermi-paradox-where-the-hell-are-the-other-earths-1580345495/+ashleyfeinberg

This is one of my favorite reads on the subject (along with many other topics covered at www.waitbutwhy.com )

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by IROC

I want to believe very badly

Why do you want to believe?

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Why do you want to believe?

Because it would be so cool!! Intelligent life from somewhere else!! What does that life look like? Is it carbon-based? How do they travel? They're obviously more advanced than us - what can they teach us? What technology do they have?

I think it would be awesome.

I think it is naive and presumptuous of humans to believe that we are the only life in this whole vast universe. The statistics/probabilities alone dictate that the chances of life out there are very favorable. We simply don't know. I think this subject is the perfect use of the term "agnostic". We simply don't know and can't know whether other life exists.

Even if the chances are favorable for life elsewhere, that doesn't mean that they are visiting Earth. No evidence of that at all. Just because people see or experience something they can't explain - jumping to the conclusion that it must be aliens from another planet is irrational.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by john70t

The Foo Fighters are named after WW2 objects which followed bomber aircraft, as reported.

There are folklore stories of "ball lightning" which came down chimneys, around a room, and back up again.

There are things well beyond our basic comprehension at this time, and might continue to be so into the distant future.
Electricity is still new to humans....

I've personally seen a falling 'meteor' streak across the sky and make a right hand turn back in the 1980's.
And again a fast moving 'satellite' which bounced around randomly (while the other stars stood still) in the 2000's.
No substances involved in both events.

A couple summers ago my daughter, brother in law and myself saw a satellite doing S turns in the sky.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by David

This is one of my favorite reads on the subject (along with many other topics covered at www.waitbutwhy.com )

As you might imagine, after my cruise in '87 when I saw what I saw, I became a bit more curious on the subject. I know the Fermi Paradox inside and out and find it stretches the limits of what we know to be true, and I am very comfortable acknowledging that fact.

I am constantly amused, however (and not in a funny, ha-ha way, or scornful way), of those that know what they know sitting on the third rock from an unremarkable Sun in a bad neighborhood.

I kid, sort of.

What we know, our ability to measure, is limited. Remember Hubble? It completely changed our view of the Cosmos - and it was launched in 1990.

https://www.space.com/29157-hubble-space-telescope-science-legacy.html

I saw what I saw, spent almost ten minutes in situ trying to capture all the "whys and hows" that were coursing through my brain.

I have written this many times before: the reason I kept mum about the whole affair (we all did) is clear from the the arc of all discussions on UFO sightings, and why I won't go on record beyond this: sooner or later the observers motives and stability are called into question.

[Brando]

I would wager that we just aren't capable of detecting other intelligent life out there. Insert witty remark about intelligent life on this rock.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by IROC

Because it would be so cool!! Intelligent life from somewhere else!! What does that life look like? Is it carbon-based? How do they travel? They're obviously more advanced than us - what can they teach us? What technology do they have?

I think it would be awesome.

I think it is naive and presumptuous of humans to believe that we are the only life in this whole vast universe. The statistics/probabilities alone dictate that the chances of life out there are very favorable. We simply don't know. I think this subject is the perfect use of the term "agnostic". We simply don't know and can't know whether other life exists.

Even if the chances are favorable for life elsewhere, that doesn't mean that they are visiting Earth. No evidence of that at all. Just because people see or experience something they can't explain - jumping to the conclusion that it must be aliens from another planet is irrational.

I find this very interesting and not entirely consistent with what I understand your religious beliefs to be.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Tobra

I find this very interesting and not entirely consistent with what I understand your religious beliefs to be.

I don‘t see an inconsistency at all. The existence of life elsewhere in the Universe is probable. I can‘t say the same for religious deities. I‘ll leave it at that in OT.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

As you might imagine, after my cruise in '87 when I saw what I saw, I became a bit more curious on the subject. I know the Fermi Paradox inside and out and find it stretches the limits of what we know to be true, and I am very comfortable acknowledging that fact.

I am constantly amused, however (and not in a funny, ha-ha way, or scornful way), of those that know what they know sitting on the third rock from an unremarkable Sun in a bad neighborhood.

I kid, sort of.

What we know, our ability to measure, is limited. Remember Hubble? It completely changed our view of the Cosmos - and it was launched in 1990.

https://www.space.com/29157-hubble-space-telescope-science-legacy.html

I saw what I saw, spent almost ten minutes in situ trying to capture all the "whys and hows" that were coursing through my brain.

I have written this many times before: the reason I kept mum about the whole affair (we all did) is clear from the the arc of all discussions on UFO sightings, and why I won't go on record beyond this: sooner or later the observers motives and stability are called into question.

I'd like to sit down with you one day and hear this over a beer and pizza

Think my beer would go warm and my pizza cold