Oh Wow...one bar patron!

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Ditto. I have been posting about this travesty for months. Businesses failing because the government hasn’t allowed them to operate.

Government? You mean, business that have been suffering and failing because half of their workers were sick or afraid of getting sick, and half of their customers were sick or afraid of getting sick?

Be reasonably. What business is the government restricting right now? Schools are open, bars are open, restaurants are open, groceries stores are open, theaters are open, strip clubs are open (kinda)...WHO is the "government" restricting, and WHICH "government" are you talking about?

Fact is, businesses and industries are failing because people are not spending money, not going out, then those people lose their jobs because their business or industry is failing, and it all gets worse. Don't blame some "government", the effects of closures have been minor compared to the effects of the virus and of social fear of interaction. The businesses started dying before the government restrictions, and now that lots of those restrictions are being lifted, they're STILL dying. What is the common feature though? The virus?

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by speeder

The end game wrt Covid19 is that it will run its course and without a vaccine or a population intelligent enough to take measures to stem its transmission, it could continue killing people for 2 years. Who knows. The USA had basically two options at the beginning of the pandemic, either decide that the economy was more important than the health and lives of its citizens and remain completely open or shut down everything and have people quarantine for a couple months to squash it, like other countries successfully did. Unfortunately, we did neither and that’s why it’s been such a disaster here. I would argue that it’s been horrible, negligent leadership at the top and also among governors who insisted on reopening too quickly or not enacting temporary measures to stop the spread.

What part of the U.S. Constitution forbids government from taking measures such as closing businesses temporarily in a public health crisis? Don’t spend too much time looking for it, it’s not there. In fact, our government could take much more drastic measures than what has been done without running afoul of the constitution. That’s a fake argument that you’ve been fed. Probably by the same people who told you that only 6000 people have died from Covid19. Maybe check w a legitimate information source once in a while, just for the hell of it?

The US is so damn big from coast to coast that nationwide shutdowns were not needed early on. It takes a long time for it to spread coast to coast. A entirely different animal. NY and the northeast were being decimated and needed strong action. At the same time the middle of the country had few cases and went overboard (no surprise after seeing Italy, Spain, and Ny numbers). It didn't take long for those low case/death count states to realize that their circumstances were far different than those hard hit areas and up. The proper decision.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by speeder

either decide that the economy was more important than the health and lives of its citizens and remain completely open or shut down everything and have people quarantine for a couple months to squash it, like other countries successfully did. Unfortunately, we did neither and that’s why it’s been such a disaster here.

Maybe people should have done that by themselves for the betterment of their communities, instead of requiring a government to hold their hands?

Bosses/businesses could have closed for 3 weeks, everyone has a fun stay at home vacation with pay. EVERYONE. At the end of the month, COVID is gone, and we can all go back to normal life. Businesses would have lost some income, but they'd be back to 100% now with a full happy healthy staff.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Maybe people should have done that by themselves for the betterment of their communities, instead of requiring a government to hold their hands?

Bosses/businesses could have closed for 3 weeks, everyone has a fun stay at home vacation with pay. EVERYONE. At the end of the month, COVID is gone, and we can all go back to normal life. Businesses would have lost some income, but they'd be back to 100% now with a full happy healthy staff.

That would have had to be a worldwide lockdown. Does EVERYONE include utility workers, police, fire, and hospital staff?

Not nearly that simple.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Maybe people should have done that by themselves for the betterment of their communities, instead of requiring a government to hold their hands?

Bosses/businesses could have closed for 3 weeks, everyone has a fun stay at home vacation with pay. EVERYONE. At the end of the month, COVID is gone, and we can all go back to normal life. Businesses would have lost some income, but they'd be back to 100% now with a full happy healthy staff.

Problem is people are people and far too many of us do things that are not in our self interest even though we believe that is what we are doing.

So Government really has no choice but to step in which just makes those who won't play nice more rebellious.

Don't know how population in Houston is handling this but up here in the Dallas area it's been a ****show.

The County Sheriff even went on record that his department would not enforce any mandate from either the Fed or the State itself.

How do you get compliance when the compliance enforcers flat out refuse to enforce?

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Do tell. What are my responsibilities according to you?

You've demonstrated your disdain for fundamental measures. I'd imagine handwashing is too much to ask of you as well. For the rest of society, it's been spelled out.

Surgery participants wear masks because they protect other people and (secondarily) themselves. These are fundamentals too but I'm sure you would be fine to find out people cited their right to opt out when working on you or your family, right? I mean, you know how ineffective masks are and all.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Government? You mean, business that have been suffering and failing because half of their workers were sick or afraid of getting sick, and half of their customers were sick or afraid of getting sick?

Be reasonably. What business is the government restricting right now? Schools are open, bars are open, restaurants are open, groceries stores are open, theaters are open, strip clubs are open (kinda)...WHO is the "government" restricting, and WHICH "government" are you talking about?

Fact is, businesses and industries are failing because people are not spending money, not going out, then those people lose their jobs because their business or industry is failing, and it all gets worse. Don't blame some "government", the effects of closures have been minor compared to the effects of the virus and of social fear of interaction. The businesses started dying before the government restrictions, and now that lots of those restrictions are being lifted, they're STILL dying. What is the common feature though? The virus?

That may be the case in Texas, Mike, but it is absolutely not the case up here in Washington. Our schools are closed. Many businesses remain closed. Restaurants and bars were allowed to open at drastically reduced capacity a couple of months ago, but just last week had many of the earlier restrictions imposed once again, with bars essentially being all but closed. Theaters were allowed to open at restricted capacity, but have been once again ordered closed. Many parks and other recreational sites had been allowed to open, but are once again closed. Gyms, yoga and dance studios, karate and other martial arts studios, pools, and all of that kind of thing have not yet been allowed to open. The same holds true in many other states - just look at the big flap of Pelosi getting her hair done - salons in California have not yet been allowed to open. They remain even more locked down than we are up here in Washington.

This is all per our governor's powers of emergency order. He pretty much has free rein to impose any restrictions he would like, under an "emergency powers" statute we, ironically, just enacted by citizens' initiative one year ago. He is taking full advantage of it... So, yes, this is very state-specific. Your situation in Texas is far different than ours.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

That may be the case in Texas, Mike, but it is absolutely not the case up here in Washington. Our schools are closed. Many businesses remain closed. Restaurants and bars were allowed to open at drastically reduced capacity a couple of months ago, but just last week had many of the earlier restrictions imposed once again, with bars essentially being all but closed. Theaters were allowed to open at restricted capacity, but have been once again ordered closed. Many parks and other recreational sites had been allowed to open, but are once again closed. Gyms, yoga and dance studios, karate and other martial arts studios, pools, and all of that kind of thing have not yet been allowed to open. The same holds true in many other states - just look at the big flap of Pelosi getting her hair done - salons in California have not yet been allowed to open. They remain even more locked down than we are up here in Washington.

This is all per our governor's powers of emergency order. He pretty much has free rein to impose any restrictions he would like, under an "emergency powers" statute we, ironically, just enacted by citizens' initiative one year ago. He is taking full advantage of it... So, yes, this is very state-specific. Your situation in Texas is far different than ours.

He doesn't realize what is going on in other parts of the country. In Lawton, Ok masks are a requirement but other than that very few restrictions. Far different that many other states.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

In Lawton, Ok masks are a requirement but other than that very few restrictions. Far different that many other states.

Masks only in Ohio. Everything open but surely limited heads for certain places.

Odd though, I saw a handwritten sign walking into a grocery store yesterday that said Max Occupancy 681.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Masks only in Ohio. Everything open but surely limited heads for certain places.

Odd though, I saw a handwritten sign walking into a grocery store yesterday that said Max Occupancy 681.

You should be open. Avg of about 20 deaths per day since the first of July with a population over 11 million.

[Jeff Higgins]

Washington has been averaging about a dozen deaths per day since the end of April. Our population is about 7.6 million people.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sxsrf=ALeKk01AhOPky_zDRmdx4F2gzZlNOE2pAg%3A1599670 199060&source=hp&ei=twdZX-erAaWs0PEPyJuQ6AE&q=washington+state+coronavirus+deaths&oq=wa&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgQIIxAnMgQIIxAnMgQIIxAnMgQ IABBDMgQIABBDMgQIABBDMgQIABBDMgQIABBDMgQIABBDMgQIA BBDUNwYWLIaYNEvaABwAHgBgAHtBIgB8QeSAQczLTEuMC4xmAE AoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab

In spite of these numbers, our governor is re-establishing and tightening many restrictions. There is no end in sight. It appears that now, for all practical purposes, the only acceptable number in this state is "zero". Our governor keeps moving the goalposts, changing the targets, imposing restrictions.

[911boost]

Post #103 may the most naive thing I have ever read on Covid... Closing everything for 3 weeks.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Maybe people should have done that by themselves for the betterment of their communities, instead of requiring a government to hold their hands?

Bosses/businesses could have closed for 3 weeks, everyone has a fun stay at home vacation with pay. EVERYONE. At the end of the month, COVID is gone, and we can all go back to normal life. Businesses would have lost some income, but they'd be back to 100% now with a full happy healthy staff.

There appears to be little correlation between severity of lockdown and reduction in virus transmission.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020-opinion-coronavirus-europe-lockdown-excess-deaths-recession/

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by pavulon

You've demonstrated your disdain for fundamental measures. I'd imagine handwashing is too much to ask of you as well. For the rest of society, it's been spelled out.

Surgery participants wear masks because they protect other people and (secondarily) themselves. These are fundamentals too but I'm sure you would be fine to find out people cited their right to opt out when working on you or your family, right? I mean, you know how ineffective masks are and all.

You were too busy attempting to insult me that you forgot to answer my question. Also just to be clear, the use of masks in a surgical setting is a dramatically different topic than people feeling all smug wearing bandannas around the Walmart.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

You were too busy attempting to insult me that you forgot to answer my question. Also just to be clear, the use of masks in a surgical setting is a dramatically different topic than people feeling all smug wearing bandannas around the Walmart.

How do you know how they feel?

Wearing a mask for prevention of contamination of others is the same fundamental principle everywhere...even in Walmart. A genuine effort is better than no effort or worse yet undermining genuine efforts.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by pavulon

How do you know how they feel?

Wearing a mask for prevention of contamination of others is the same fundamental principle everywhere...even in Walmart. A genuine effort is better than no effort or worse yet undermining genuine efforts.

Wearing a cloth mask that has been shown to actually enhance the spread of CV is helping protect people packed into a Walmart? Or maybe we should discuss the blatant misunderstanding and lack of adherence to proper mask protocol that would be followed in a medical setting?

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Wearing a cloth mask that has been shown to actually enhance the spread of CV is helping protect people packed into a Walmart? Or maybe we should discuss the blatant misunderstanding and lack of adherence to proper mask protocol that would be followed in a medical setting?

Again, how do you know how they feel?

Masks facilitate spreading? Seems like a fabrication lifted from some place with a biased agenda.

Overview
Wear masks with two or more layers to stop the spread of COVID-19
Wear the mask over your nose and mouth and secure it under your chin
Masks should be worn by people two years and older
Masks should NOT be worn by children younger than two, people who have trouble breathing, or people who cannot remove the mask without assistance
Do NOT wear masks intended for healthcare workers, for example, N95 respirators
CDC does not recommend the use of gaiters or face shields. Evaluation of these face covers is on-going but effectiveness is unknown at this time.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Wearing a cloth mask that has been shown to actually enhance the spread of CV

how about not making up a bunch of BS??

that's what PARF is for - and you belong there, not here

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by 911boost

Post #103 may the most naive thing I have ever read on Covid... Closing everything for 3 weeks.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

EVERYTHING. We woulda been back to normal in March.

What do you think happens when a cat 5 hurricane hits Florida? For 3 weeks, everything is closed. We can EASILY survive that.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

This is all per our governor's powers of emergency order. He pretty much has free rein to impose any restrictions he would like, under an "emergency powers" statute we, ironically, just enacted by citizens' initiative one year ago. He is taking full advantage of it... So, yes, this is very state-specific. Your situation in Texas is far different than ours.

Our governor has been playing God as well, extending his emergency order indefinitely. His goal posts haven't moved much, but they were so far from where we were and are that there is no end in sight. Then, our local government has decided to extend things 2 weeks PAST whatever the state restrictions are.

And things are not that different, because even though we may have "opened" bars, for example, no one is going to them, so they're still hemorrhaging money. Many didn't even bother to open, because they could afford the extra cost of physically having people working there.


It's not the government's fault now, it's the population's fault. They're not going out, they're not working, they're not being social, they're afraid of their own shadow, and businesses are still suffering because of it.