Dillon 650 Primer Danger

[snowman]

I made several posts about my Dillon 650 and the fact that it has crushed primers and detonated the primer stack several times, leaving holes in my ceiling and my ears ringing. 650.

I received a lot of ridicule and flack about those postings stating that I must be the only person in the world who has ever had such a problem with a Dillon

I now know, for a fact, that many, many others have had exactly the same problem. I was doing a search for the best reloading machine, better than a 1050 if possible and I ran across many comments by people that have had crushed primers in their 650, some of them blowing up in their face. Only Dillons design saved them from serious harm, only luck, in my opinion, saved them from great harm. The 650 design somehow allows primers to turn sideways and be crushed upon the next stroke of the lever. Only luck prevents the primer from going off. This appears to be a design defect and is not related to the users operation of the press. I have had the same problem loading 0.308, but at much less frequency. I have had shells, loaded with a primer crossway's and partially crushed, make it all the way to the final loading. IE it was possible to set off the primer with a full powder charge and a bullet in place, inside the bullet seating die or the crimp die or in between. I suspect the bang would be much louder with the bullet inside the die if the primer went off.

Bottom line, the Dillon 650, in my opinion, has a serious defect that may cause serious harm to the user. Dillon needs to correct this before someone is seriously hurt.]

[HardDrive]

Scary.

[Joeaksa]

Snow,

Dillon is the best reloading press maker that I know of and if there is ANY defect in their design they would stop making presses and change it IMMEDIATELY. They simply do not accept any problems with their presses.

I know that you have had this issue for a long time but I also know that I used a 650 for over 15 years, then sold the press to a good friend of mine (my Dentist in Berlin Germany) and he has now used the same press for over 10 years. Not one case of this happening with this machine. As well I know 4-5 other reloaders in the Phoenix area using 650's and no problems.

Why is it happening with you and a select few? Please show us a link to where these people are documenting their issues so we can find out for ourselves.

I have no link to Dillon what so ever. Just been a very happy user for many, many years. Every time I had a problem they took care of it immediately, as in right now and no questions asked and they paid for everything. You are the only reloader I know of who has had these problems as you keep advertising it on the PPOT, but then I have not reloaded in a while. Show us the others who are having these issues and then lets have Dillon take care of it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Damn........I think once would be enough for me.

[Jeff Higgins]

Hmmm... three .45-70 cases, three different headstamps. I hope these are not all from the same "lot" of reloaded ammunition. If such carelessness in mixing brass is carried over into other reloading operations, you need to find a less complex hobby and stop blaming Dillon for your troubles.

[john walker's workshop]

snowman has guns????

[legion]

One thing I love about my Lee--I manually verify each primer is properly loaded.

Jack, have you tried contacting Dillon?

[jt1]

If the shellplate is properly adjusted, there's no way it can rotate with a sideways primer like the ones in the pic. And, the only way to get a sideways primer to start with is if the primer tube is loose in the magazine tube. You need to get some help adjusting your machine when you change calibers. My Dillon is well past 50K rounds with no issues at all.

John

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by snowman

I made several posts about my Dillon 650 and the fact that it has crushed primers and detonated the primer stack several times, leaving holes in my ceiling and my ears ringing.

My only question is: why the funk do you keep using it?

Originally Posted by jt1

If the shellplate is properly adjusted, there's no way it can rotate with a sideways primer like the ones in the pic. And, the only way to get a sideways primer to start with is if the primer tube is loose in the magazine tube. You need to get some help adjusting your machine when you change calibers. My Dillon is well past 50K rounds with no issues at all.

Sounds to me like the gizmo needs to be redesigned so less skilled operators don't blow chit up, to be quite honest.

[azasadny]

This is a timely thread for me because I'm considering reloading since I have a new Colt AR-15. I'll do a lot of research 1st and talk to guys who reload before buying anything.

[Joeaksa]

Art,

If 50,000+ rounds and no malfunctions is any indication, "most" people are very happy with Dillon products.

If you are going to be shooting a lot, a progressive press is really important. I had a 550 Dillon and traded it in on a 650 as the 650 indexes itself. In other words when you pull the handle the shells rotate on their own to the next station on the 650. On the 550 you have to do it by hand, so its not as fast. All depends on how many rounds you want to load or shoot.

The guy using my old 650 is still very happy with it but the important thing about any Dillon product except the commercial presses is that they will overhaul or recondition them FOR FREE at anytime you like. Not happy with it, send it in and they will return it "as new" for free. You want to do this every year, they will gladly do it every year. Its called their "Lifetime "No-B.S." Warranty" and no other reloading company does this.

Let me just have Mike Dillon tell you the way he feels about it:

Our products have thrived for several reasons. First, I run the company based on my philosophy. You treat other people the way you want to be treated. I don’t want people calling me up saying, “You miserable S.O.B., you sold me this machine and now you won’t help me.” I don’t want anyone mad at me. This is reflected in our warranty.

No warranty cards, registration or serial numbers are necessary. Whether you are the first owner, or the seventeenth, all our hobby-level reloading machines have a lifetime warranty. If you break, damage or wear out anything on them, it will be fixed or replaced – whatever is necessary to restore the machine to normal operating condition. If a minor part is all that is needed, contact us and we will ship the part. (International customers pay the return shipping costs)

If something major is damaged or broken,contact us and we issue the customer a return merchandise authorization-RMA- to return the item to us for repair. The customer pays the shipping; we fix or replace as is warranted. Only our commercial machine, the Super 1050, has a one-year warranty, as do all electrical/electronic products and textiles.

Our customers understand that they have a best friend at our factory. We are only a phone call, FAX or E-mail away. In return we receive an incredible amount of customer loyalty.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/about_us.html

Again, I do not have anything what so ever to do with the Dillon company. I am just a very happy customer and used Hornady and RCBS presses years ago before finding the Dillon press when I was based in Germany with the military. Won my Dillon press at the "Rod and Gun Club" meetings/dinners in Berlin and it was one of the best things I ever received.

I live down the road from them and have stopped in their facility often and its always spic and span, professionally run and employees very helpful. Someday going to get a tour but not made it yet, but they run a tight ship and do things right IMHO. Thats why its the leader in the reloading press market. Thats why I will never use any other press other than a Dillon.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Reloading just freaks me out. You guys are crazy IMNSHO.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyJaunte

Reloading just freaks me out. You guys are crazy IMNSHO.

Why? It's an entirely safe (for most of us anyway) and enjoyable hobby. I've had a great time with it since I was a young man. Casting my own bullets, I can shoot centerfire revolvers and pistols for what most folks spend to shoot rimfires. Centerfire rifle costs are a bit higher when I'm shooting jacketed bullet rounds, but most of my rifles get a steady diet of cast bullets these days as well. In 35 years of doing this, and well over 100,000 rounds of my own ammo fired, I have never had a problem. I've had factory rounds fail to fire, but never my own. Never damaged a gun, never had an accident reloading, casting, shooting, or anything else associated with this.

[MT930]

Originally Posted by jt1

If the shellplate is properly adjusted, there's no way it can rotate with a sideways primer like the ones in the pic. And, the only way to get a sideways primer to start with is if the primer tube is loose in the magazine tube. You need to get some help adjusting your machine when you change calibers. My Dillon is well past 50K rounds with no issues at all.

John

I think he's right, something is going on that is causing primers to up set. I had that happen once on a Hornady Press that was out of adjustment. The Dillon stuff I have used is simple strong and safe. I would not use it until they look at it. Having a stack tube of primers go off, that's not good. 45-70 I would not mix brass ether. My big rifle bench cartridges are all hand loaded to get max accuracy. Does the progressive made cartridge preform well?

[snowman]

Dillon has aligned the press for me, it still does it, and with all the same lot of brass, although it shouldn't matter for primers as there is no adjustment for different lots of brass.

The problem is apparently quite common as I have found a multitude of comments about it on several bulletin boards. I will dig up them again and post a summary of them sometime in the next couple of weeks.

I am getting rid of the 650 before it hurts me, part of the reason I am looking for a better press. Anyone want to make a good offer and its yours. Only loaded approx 3,000 rounds of 45-70 and 2,000 rounds of 308. Dies are separate. Redding Competition bullet seating die, Dillon resizing and decaping die, crimp die.

The facts speak for themselves, I have photos of both 45-70 and 308 crushed primers. Everything is adjusted properly, and readjusted by Dillon, with same result. Shell plate is as tight as possible, only about 0.006" rock in it, Primer tube is tight, primer feed ok and has been replaced twice due to primer blowing up. Yes Dillon has replaced every part, no questions asked, every time, for free, but is it really worth the danger involved? MY opinion, as an engineer with over 35 years experience, their design has a problem. Maybe its tolerance. Earlier machines may be different with better or different parts. It may be tolerance build up, or just plain bad design that has a certain percentage of unacceptable parts. I don't know, but I do know I will no longer be using it.

[Joeaksa]

Jack,

Please get another brand of press. Then you can be unhappy with it.

Just checked the forum on the Dillon site and out of 4 pages of threads with around 10 per page, there were a grand total of 3 threads talking about primers on the 650 press. Every post that I saw had ideas and suggestions by Dillon to fix the problem and most of the posters replied that it worked and was no longer a problem.

Please get something else and sure that you will then complain that it does not have the unlimited guarantee that Dillon has.

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

snowman has guns????

My submission for 2008 Quote of the Year.

But, so far we only know he has ammo, guns remain unconfirmed at this point.

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by snowman

MY opinion, as an engineer with over 35 years experience, their design has a problem. Maybe its tolerance.

Can't you figure out what the problem is? If you're going to slag a product you really should be 100% sure that the product is at fault. Is it even remotely possible that the root cause is not the press?

[snowman]

Funny thing, Dillon aligns press, I still get crushed primers, and somehow its my fault!!?? BS!

I will post what I found, widespread primer problems with the 650 within the next 2 weeks.

I did not buy a press to redesign it, I bought it to use. This press, in my opinion is downright dangerous and should be recalled.

I work with and align a lot of precision machines, eg 0.0007" wire bonding machines, I also do all the machine work on car engines, ALL the machine work, for race engines, NO problems, Yet a simple reloading machine, that has almost no adjustments for primers, is crushing primers and no amount of adjustment by me OR DILLON can cure the problem. WTF yeh, its my fault, just BS total BS!!!!!!! And then theres all those other people who have the exact same problem!! WHY???

Like I said, my 650 is for sale, make me an offer.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by snowman

Funny thing, Dillon aligns press, I still get crushed primers, and somehow its my fault!!?? BS!

I will post what I found, widespread primer problems with the 650 within the next 2 weeks.

I did not buy a press to redesign it, I bought it to use. This press, in my opinion is downright dangerous and should be recalled.

I work with and align a lot of precision machines, eg 0.0007" wire bonding machines, I also do all the machine work on car engines, ALL the machine work, for race engines, NO problems, Yet a simple reloading machine, that has almost no adjustments for primers, is crushing primers and no amount of adjustment by me OR DILLON can cure the problem. WTF yeh, its my fault, just BS total BS!!!!!!!

Not saying it's your fault but based on your credentials surely you can figure out rather quickly what the problem is.

I know, not really your job but you must have some idea, even a gut instinct.

Might help Dillon fix it and maybe save someone's life.