When did you know it was over in a relationship?

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by widebody911

Sounds like she wants to shop around. Time to punch out. You'll be sitting around waiting, while she's living it up, but if you tap some strange, it will be used against you.

I really don't think that's the case. Possibly but I doubt it. Personally I think it may be an effort to prove to me I am better off with her. She wants me to see what its like to maintain a large home day to day chores alone.

What's freaky is we have been getting along so very well for the past 3-4 months. Even when we had disagreements we settled them with amicably and with good humor. The weekend of the blow up was fantastic with us making plans to make the getaways a regular part of our relationship.

[Rikao4]

sorry to hear,
but I expected this..
related your new adventure to my lady..
she remembered you...
BMW with studmuffin pic covering the temp. gauge follies...
her call..punt 'they play games & will always play games'

shes smart, no games, and the reason I'm still around after 28 yrs..

Rika

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Time to start taking care of me.

That is the best course of action. Lay low & she what she does but as soon as I hear: "I need space" . . .

Ian

[Rikao4]

She wants me to see what its like to maintain a large home day to day chores alone.


for her & them..
the tough part seems to be keeping the lies,plots, tales of poor me straight.

Rika

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Well we had a phone conversation. Nutshell: She's angry as hell still. Deflects the deception issue and blames it on her fear of me getting angry, although she did acknowledge that it was wrong to deceive me. We began to go into tit-for-tat mode but I tried to shut that down.

Says she values the marriage and wants to make a run at fixing it. Agrees counseling wil be necessary, but thinks I am the one with the problems. She is just fine, thank you. Needs space. Thinks there is a possibility for fixing relationship but it may be a month, six months or a year.

Is shopping for an apartment to lease. When I suggest that may be a bit hasty and there are other options to live apart before making a long term lease commitment, she is adamant she does not want my suggestions: "I am not going to do what you want me to."

So there ya go.

Sorry Jim, but that doesn't sound like someone that wants to fix a marriage. Sounds like she's paying you lip-service and moving on. Space and seperate homes are for dating, not a marriage. No commitment from her end to fix the issues. If she doesn't commit to change, will this problem go away?

[stomachmonkey]

She thinks you are a control freak and that scares her.

[cgarr]

Maintaining a large home day to day and all the chores can be handled by an outside service, that's what I keep telling my wife, if your tired of all that stuff hire someone to come in and do it.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Time to start taking care of me.

Amen. While I wouldn't close any doors just yet, I am afraid that Rikao is, in my limited view of the situation, more on track than off.

All the best and I hope this all works out to your satisfaction...

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Sorry Jim, but that doesn't sound like someone that wants to fix a marriage. Sounds like she's paying you lip-service and moving on. Space and seperate homes are for dating, not a marriage. No commitment from her end to fix the issues. If she doesn't commit to change, will this problem go away?

A very real possibility I have considered. But if it is just lip service and she has made up her mind and she's not willing to put forth the effort required to make a marriage work, with the attendant concessions by both sides, then I'm better off without her.

Often when I handle divorce clients, at the initial interview I sit and let them tell me why they want a divorce. Typically they will rant and rant about their estranged spouse's shortcomings ad naseum. When they are finished, I ask "What do you own in the failure of the relationship? Not that you're a failure, but with respect to the relationship what are you responsible for?"

They are often shocked. I then say, "Well if its all his/her fault, will you at least admit you picked the wriong person?" And that usually leads to a personal inventory of their own actions.

When I have broached this question to my wife when we're on rocky grounds, he response is "Well I'm sure I've made my mistakes." But it is difficult for her to have insight into what she does to sabotage especially when the kids are at issue.

I've made my bed.

In a worst case scenario, living well is the best revenge.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

She thinks you are a control freak and that scares her.

As well as she does not recognize that SHE is the one causing you to get angry.

Getting her to realize that she is just as big a part of the problem is the first step, and I am not sure she is ever going to realize this.

[9dreizig]

Jim,
Sorry to hear this. YOU of all people shouldn't need this advise but just incase.. Shore up your financial situation, she sounds angry and that could mean revenge.. close the cards etc..
Prepare for the worst but be open to the best.

I'm just curious what do YOUR kids say. Do they think you're a control freak? What about your best friend outside of Pelican ? What's his opinion?

Just trying to get and give you a sanity check ...

Another question,, what if the girls didn't move back ? What if you got THEM the apartment and took the don't ask don't tell approach to their life ?

[legion]

My father was like this. (Not able to see/admit his own role in family problems.) As I said in another post, he blamed all of the problems in his marriage to his mother on me...until I moved out. Then he blamed them all on my sister...until she moved out.

Until she takes ownership of the whole deception issue, reconciliation is impossible.

[KaptKaos]

Sucks. Sorry to hear that.

Sounds like she still wants to be 18 like her kids and be their friend. Maybe she lives a little vicariously through them too. I don't know.

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter what she says, it's what she does. Many women have a problem being blunt, thinking it will hurt less to give you some hope to cling to. Letting you down easy as they say. IMO it makes it worse.

She packed up, left and didn't call you until you sent her flowers. After all of that she still can't see your side of the story at all and is finding a new place to live.

That's not how you treat someone that you love.

Sorry to hear all of this.

[Heel n Toe]

Jim, I wish you the best. With the right counselling/counselor, this might be able to be healed, but I would surmise the counselor is going to have to work miracles to get her to admit she is playing the vastly major role in the dysfunction... and needs to mature and stop trying to just be her daughters' friend, totally ignoring the proper role as parent.

Originally Posted by KaptKaos

Sounds like she still wants to be 18 like her kids and be their friend. Maybe she lives a little vicariously through them too. I don't know.

Of course... the genesis of all the problems is her not knowing how to parent.

Originally Posted by KaptKaos

She packed up, left and didn't call you until you sent her flowers. After all of that she still can't see your side of the story at all and is finding a new place to live.

I think she sees his side, but is unwilling to admit he has a legitimate beef because that would be admitting to herself that she was wrong.

BTW, Jim didn't say she called him.

He said, "Well we had a phone conversation..."

I would guess that means he called her based on past patterns, which I strongly believe wouldn't have been the right approach.

Did you call her, Jim?

[Danimal16]

Jim,

As you have been sharing this story, I get more chills up my back. This is exactly how it unfolded for me. Including the going on the trip and having a period of a few months where things seemed to improve. I have a bad feeling about this. I would quietly cover the legal side of protecting yourself as you do need to look out for yourself. If respect is an issue, she just does not get it and it is clearly (IMHO) reflected in how her daughters treat you.

I's prepare for the worst, put it on her and move on if it suits your needs. The trust thing is what concerns me. If she betrayed your trust on something that was agreed to, easy to comply with, showing respect you, what other things is she not telling you? I am not saying plan for the worst, but be prepared, plan for success. It seems she has taken the ball and wants to run with it, let her. Just don't play her game anymore.

[red-beard]

I will add to Jim and say that you should go shopping for Lawyers now. This is not meant to believe the relationship can't be fixed. It is a means to protect yourself.

And you know the old one about representing yourself. Go interview EVERY really good divorce lawyer in town, and pay at least one of them for advice. Protect yourself.

This may not end in divorce, but your 2 are SEPARATING. If either of you ends up dating during the separation, you know you must immediately file for divorce. I have never seen, in real life, a couple end up back together that did a trial separation with dating. If have seen a few get back together for a while, but usually it ends.

As a bare minimum, start preparing a property settlement. My advice on a property settlement, be as generous as possible. If this does end, you want to get it over and done with as quickly and painlessly as possible.

[red-beard]

Oh, and I would scour the Pelican board, and delete every thread to do with this and any related situations and anything else you think about. What ever you have posted can and will be used against you in a court of law.

[Rikao4]

this last episode is nothing more than a rerun..
reruns ..we've seen them..
know how they end..
your clan just loves them..
time to turn off the TV...

Rika

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by KaptKaos

Sounds like she still wants to be 18 like her kids and be their friend. Maybe she lives a little vicariously through them too. I don't know.

I also got a teenage type vibe from her reply. I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but it reminded me a spoiled high school girl. All about me, no concern for the man she committed to spend her life with.

Jim, I agree with the others, you have to be realistic and cover your own ass. Remember the simple fact that your wife has left you, hard as it may be to accept. Ever know one of those couples that consistently broke up then got back together a short time later? Any of those couples still together? The ones I know sure aren't. It seems that the two of you have a few diametrically opposed views that cause you to butt heads, and neither one is willing to change. Hard to fix such a fundamental issue.

[the]

I agree, based on a careful reading of her words, this appears to be over.