Separation as a tool to save a marriage...your experiences?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by schamp

Jim, you might want to get ahead of the game by getting a lawyer. If you know of one you don't want on the other side talk to her/him first. If you end up not needing one great. I am thinking its time to start looking forward and not back. Good luck.

Jim is a lawyer.

[onewhippedpuppy]

What's the old saying - someone who represents himself has a fool for a client?

Honestly though, saying "I miss you" via text doesn't really hold much water. Communication with minimal effort is no way to repair a marriage.

[Rot 911]

I suspect she is doing this to hold the door out for him to ask her to come back. She still wants to be in control.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Kurt V

I suspect she is doing this to hold the door out for him to ask her to come back. She still wants to be in control.

Agreed.

[schamp]

I did not know that Jim was an attorney. That being the case, he knows the ropes. With the time that has gone by, it makes you wonder just what she is doing with her time. I would be keeping a close eye on the joint accounts, stock, mutual, retirement etc. Jim, hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

[legion]

There is also another well-documented female behavior...

Most women prefer to make a "hot transition" from one relationship to another. They will keep a guy around because they believe some guy is better than no guy. I've seen plenty of my guy friends get strung along while their SO is out actively looking for their replacement. And they don't find out (or refuse to see the situation for what it is) until the woman decides to spell it out for them. It happened to me once in high school.

Some of the signs:

-Drastic changes in behavior
-Sudden secrecy
-Spending more time apart for no apparent reason
-More fighting/having the woman intentionally start fights/having the woman intentially do things to start fights
-Taking up a new hobby that takes a lot of time--especially one that seemingly runs counter to her personality
-Increase in errands, doctors appointments, business trips...
-Loss of interest, both in sex and in you
-Things that weren't a problem are suddently A BIG PROBLEM

[john70t]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I hope you've deduced by now that menopause is probably an active component to her craziness.
Good luck with that nonsense bro.

Dates are disposable, wife's are not.
First, forget the the day-to-day stuff. They are insignifigant now. What do you want your life to be like in ten years?

A marriage is a joining of two individuals in a complimentary situation.
-Your wife is supposed to be your most trusted friend who will help you through the bad times...and who you would expect to help you during those same bad times.
-Think of the length that you'd go to help your best (male) friend.
Would you die for him? Would you kill for him?
Why would it be different with your wife?

Mabye it will work, mabye it won't, but you should TRY for your own conscience, your own soul. There's no point in spending energy and the limited time alive on earth in a situation that is self-destructiove to both individuals.

Sleep in seperate beds/make seperate schedules/do whatever, but remember to give empathy(at least a little) and help with with the basics. Those make a huge difference over time.
The most important thing to her is to know that you are trying. Trying is free.


FWIW, I've been living with the S.O. going through menopause the last three of four years.
It's been "difficult" for me. It's been hell for her.

[Oh Haha]

We didn't have texting when I got divorced but we only communicated via brief phone calls. For us, this worked better as we didn't have to see each other. It made it easier for me to move on with my life. In our case, we had no children so it was a total disconnect once the house was in her name.

I think she may be realizing that the girls will be gone soon and she will be alone. That could go both ways for you, obviously. She may realise that you are a good catch or it may a way to get you back while the girls are outof her daily life.

As always, hoping for the best.

I would contact a lawyer, though.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally Posted by legion

There is also another well-documented female behavior...

Most women prefer to make a "hot transition" from one relationship to another. They will keep a guy around because they believe some guy is better than no guy. I've seen plenty of my guy friends get strung along while their SO is out actively looking for their replacement. And they don't find out (or refuse to see the situation for what it is) until the woman decides to spell it out for them. It happened to me once in high school.

Some of the signs:

-Drastic changes in behavior
-Sudden secrecy
-Spending more time apart for no apparent reason
-More fighting/having the woman intentionally start fights/having the woman intentially do things to start fights
-Taking up a new hobby that takes a lot of time--especially one that seemingly runs counter to her personality
-Increase in errands, doctors appointments, business trips...
-Loss of interest, both in sex and in you
-Things that weren't a problem are suddently A BIG PROBLEM

+1

Yep most women will find a new honey before dumping the old honey. It's like looking for a job, you don't quit your old job until you found a new job.

Originally Posted by john70t

Dates are disposable, wife's are not.
First, forget the the day-to-day stuff. They are insignifigant now. What do you want your life to be like in ten years?

A marriage is a joining of two individuals in a complimentary situation.
-Your wife is supposed to be your most trusted friend who will help you through the bad times...and who you would expect to help you during those same bad times.
-Think of the length that you'd go to help your best (male) friend.
Would you die for him? Would you kill for him?
Why would it be different with your wife?

Mabye it will work, mabye it won't, but you should TRY for your own conscience, your own soul. There's no point in spending energy and the limited time alive on earth in a situation that is self-destructiove to both individuals.

Sleep in seperate beds/make seperate schedules/do whatever, but remember to give empathy(at least a little) and help with with the basics. Those make a huge difference over time.
The most important thing to her is to know that you are trying. Trying is free.


FWIW, I've been living with the S.O. going through menopause the last three of four years.
It's been "difficult" for me. It's been hell for her.

+1

A lot of Good Advice.

[adrian jaye]

HI Dueller,

Just me POV since I'm a <>< I can only come at it from that way.

I believe unless there is major issues that put another person in harm, i.e. abuse, then I don't believe seperation is "a tool" to solve marital problems.

I believe in counciling (albeit professional therapy, pastor, etc) prayer, or just talking about things.

Half the problems stem from miscommunication, men try to fix things, women just want you to understand there pain.

So as a first, just listen dont try to fix her problem, cos you cant and thats not what she wants anyway.

The problem with time outs it opens the door to all kinds of "freinds" and "advise" which other people can use for there own purpose.

I believe your strength is being together, if you must sleep in separate beds, separate rooms, but stay together that way the communication lines are always open.

If your not there to listen (or visa versa) she may then seek council from an old freind and the grass always looks greener.

You quoted Moses, and that as a <>< I believe is 100%, the differance between dating, and marriage is two separate things. If you believe in marriage in the full <>< sense of the word, YOU have been joined emotionally, mentally and spiritally. If you believe in any of the vows you took (wife as well) it was for better or for worse. Your wife is as your body, so you would not abuse your body, so same thing applies to your wife.

Love your wife as you love yourself and you wont go far wrong.

I truly hope you can resolve your problems, but I would say:

1> LISTEN
2> LISTEN
3> UNDERSTAND and EMPATHISE

Of course this does not mean you become a doormat. But remember women are totally different emotional beings from men. You never lose, you only can win.

And it dont hurt to pray either,

OK, just my 2c's

Hope it all works out and let us know how it goes

ade

Originally Posted by Dueller

You are all aware of my domestic foibles and I thsnk you for your comments and support. I don't really want to get into an analysis of my situation as much as I want to hear your experiences with a "time out" to step back and sort out your individual as well as marital relationship issues in an effort to salvage a marriage.

In your experience, has it worked in your relationship(s)? What kind of time frame is reasonable? Did you maintain contact during the separation? Was it just prolongong the inevitable?

Since many of you followed my other thread along these lines, let me say the following...My wife and I truly love each other; we redcognize we both have persoanl issues that we need to deal with separately for our own well being; there are issues involving the relationship that must be addressed to each other's satisfaction that we agree are fixable; there is no issue that will be financially deveastating to either of us should we decide to split for good so we're not having to deal with that destructive issue so common to relationship failures; there is no issue of infidelity, substance abuse/addictions etc involved; nobody's looking for the BBD (bigger better deal).

I think it was Moses who said separate living arrangements and "space" are for dating...not marriages. May be true but I know of couples who have had separations and come back togerther to a a better relationship. But then again, there are those that it was a prelude for ending it. To paraphrase the warden from Cool Hand Luke, ""When a (wo)man gets the rabbit in him he's gonna run...into the box Luke." and "What we have heah is failure to communicate<"

On the persoanal level, I'm doing fine. This time alone has allowed for introspection and has allowed me to see things I've not handled well, seen that I have neglected my own neeeds/happiness, seen that I am way too hard on myself, etc. I am firmly convinced I will be a better man regardless of whether we reconcile or not.

TYIA for your comments.

[ruf-porsche]

"Do you know how you tell real love? It's when someone else’s interest trumps your own. I like to put it that way: trumps your own. Love of somebody else -- of family, of your kids -- becomes the most important, most worthwhile thing in your life. It's what you foster and protect."

Quote from Brad Pitt in the upcoming issue of Parade Magazine.

I told the first ex Mrs Ruf Porsche that I would put her happiness before my own. I was truly in Love with her when we divorce because that is what she wanted. Years later she wanted to start over again, but I have already moved on.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by adrian jaye

You quoted Moses, and that as a <>< I believe is 100%, the differance between dating, and marriage is two separate things. If you believe in marriage in the full <>< sense of the word, YOU have been joined emotionally, mentally and spiritally. If you believe in any of the vows you took (wife as well) it was for better or for worse. Your wife is as your body, so you would not abuse your body, so same thing applies to your wife.

I was reading the Bible last night, in Matthew it says that if you marry a divorced woman, you are committing the sin of adultery.

As a <><, do you think that's true? And if so, what does that mean to the vows Dueller and his previously divorced wife made, given that the marriage itself would seem to be a sin according to the Bible.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by McLovin

I was reading the Bible last night, in Matthew it says that if you marry a divorced woman, you are committing the sin of adultery.

As a <><, do you think that's true? And if so, what does that mean to the vows Dueller and his previously divorced wife made, given that the marriage itself would seem to be a sin according to the Bible.

I don't know who the hell you are, but I do know that I am yet to see you make a single positive contribution to any thread. If you want to troll and start a religion debate, take it to PARF. Don't piss on Jim's thread dealing with some serious issues in his life.

[berettafan]

adrian that is a beautiful post but i believe it makes the assumption that both parties made the correct decision when they got married in the first place. It seems that as soon as we do something human (ie wrong) we screw up the chain of events and what follows can't be looked at on its own.

i do certainly believe that as humans we need love, affection and support (and a nice set of hooters to motorboat) and i further believe that divorce hardens us to those needs and causes us to ignore them with all manner of ill consequences.

tough times to be sure.

[Laneco]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Back to the separation topic...an update.....

Bottom line, she's doing OK considering, she's excited and also depressed over the girls leaving for college, exhausted from work, concerned about her mood changes, yadadadada. I offered to "listen and not lecture if she needed to talk. A newfound skill I'm paying a therapsit $150 to learn..LOL." She was too tired to talk then. I didn't press (my normal style to jump in and fix). She closed with "I love you and miss you." I responded "G'nite. Me too."....

You know, Dueller, there's something in this message that I don't think has been addressed... Sending the girls to college is a HUGE life changing event, she's excited and depressed over it. Exhausted over work, concerned over her mood changes (probably well aware that this is due to physical changes).

When this much stuff is happening all at once, coupled with work exhaustion, maybe what was really needed was a VACATION, not a seperation... My humble slept-in-a-motel-6 last night opinion is that she needed a seperation from being depressed, exhausted, etc. Not a seperation from YOU. I am not seeing, based on what you report above, that YOU are the problem.

I really don't think your wife is looking for greener pastures or a different rooster for the henhouse. I think she was looking to get out of the nutty barnyard for a while. Just escape and collect herself.

At least I hope, for you and yours, that is the case. Best wishes for you Dueller. Your posts have reflected an inherent kindness.

angela

[Dueller]

Thanks for weighing in, Angela. In this thread and a related one, several posters have called out for your input. Your comments are somewhat reassuring.

After the text mesages (the following evening) we visited on the phone for about an hour. Of course we gravitated towards our old style of tit for tat or keeping score. I finally suggested at this stage we just get together and do some superficial things; i.e., stop dwelling on the big issues and just go have some casual fun. She agreed that was a better tact at this point but she is overwhelmed still about everything being off kilter in her life. Haven't had an opportunity to get together.

Last nite I invited her out for a late date breakfast at the "Awful House" (Waffle House) since there was a full moon and that was the first meal we shared on our first date with a full moon as well. She politely declined citing exhaustion from work but asked for a rain check. Rather than get disappointed I texted back: "I understand. Get some rest. Love you." She responded "Thank you. I love you too."

So we are slowly opening the lines of communication. And independent confidants have verified she wants the marriage to work out, she's not interested in greener pastures, she's overwhelmed with every thing, etc etc.

But then today, I learn she is taking the nite of her 50th birthday off to have dinner with the kids. And I'm not included. This is hurtful to me for some reason. I know they're not my bio children but I have been in their life for the past six years doing a lot of heavy lifting in their rearing...from homework to car repair to sitting thru years of athletic events, beauty pageants, etc to buying the big house in the proper school district to exposing them to international travel on every vacation dating back to when we were just dating to making personal/financial sacrifices deferring my own needs, etc etc. Now they're all leaving for college and I don't get to enjoy the fruits of my labor and she doesn't seem to care. I'm trying not to portray myself as victim or have a pity party, but its a tough pill to swallow.

Thanks for your thoughts. Guess its gonna take time to salvage but once the kids are gone there will be more time to work on us, hopefully.

[stomachmonkey]

Dude,

The last thing you need right now is to be anywhere near her when the kids are around.

Period.

They have been the catalyst for a lot of issues.

You can't get to there from here with those rolling speed traps around.

[bivenator]

At this juncture it is probably best that you not go to the dinner that the daughters are involved. You stated that ya'll still went tit 4 tat in a phone conversation. The evening could evolve into a tit 4 tat with the girls present. Not good. Let them go, they will realize what a swell guy you are, it just may take them growing up in order for that to happen.
A squabble between the two of you will not move this forward and will reinforce any neg. impressions that mom is giving them. Focus on your wife, let the kids go and grow, they will be back if you and mom are together.

[Dueller]

Stomach/bivenator...a rare moment of clarity. You both are absolutely CORRECT. Thanks.

[rammstein]

It was interesting to read Angela's response. Females read things completely different, and their ability to figure out other women is uncanny.

There was this one instance where something went down with this guy and his gf, and when I recounted the details to my wife, she said "I bet she is cheating on him with his best friend". I told my other friend this, and he told he his girlfriend told him the same thing. Came to find out a few days later that she had cheated on him with his best friend. Girls see stuff that we don't.

Female advice is good. They are like decoder rings.