Common Notion: Racking a Pump 12 Gauge Will Scare Off a Bad Guy.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I think having a death on your conscience would take some time to get over, even a justified one.

Ummm.... NO

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by targa911S

But it looks so cool.

Yo Yo, don't you have green ink?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Ummm.... NO

Go talk to a soldier that has been in real combat and get back with me. My dad wouldn't talk about Vietnam until I was grown and out of the house, which was 40 years later. Even killing people that are trying to kill you is hard to cope with.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Go talk to a soldier that has been in real combat and get back with me. My dad wouldn't talk about Vietnam until I was grown and out of the house, which was 40 years later. Even killing people that are trying to kill you is hard to cope with.

Matt, I've talked to plenty and yes I've had ONE that would talk about Nam. In war yes maybe there is. It's a huge difference between war and thugs. I'm talking thuggery not war.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Go talk to a soldier that has been in real combat and get back with me. My dad wouldn't talk about Vietnam until I was grown and out of the house, which was 40 years later. Even killing people that are trying to kill you is hard to cope with.

Not even close to the same thing as defending one's self or family against a violent thug. As a matter of fact, studies indicate that other than the trauma associated with being the target of a violent crime, most of those who emerge victorious over their assailant feel pretty damn good about it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Matt, I've talked to plenty and yes I've had ONE that would talk about Nam. In war yes maybe there is. It's a huge difference between war and thugs. I'm talking thuggery not war.

Of most of the guys that I've heard openly talking about Vietnam, with a little prying you find out that they were cooks or mechanics. For the guys actually crawling through the underbrush it's a different story. All I knew for years was that my dad was there as 1st Air Cav and that it was a hellish experience. He still won't go into much detail on his experiences.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Not even close to the same thing as defending one's self or family against a violent thug. As a matter of fact, studies indicate that other than the trauma associated with being the target of a violent crime, most of those who emerge victorious over their assailant feel pretty damn good about it.

I hope to never find out, but I think I would feel pretty bad about taking anyone's life, even a scumbag that deserved to die. Maybe I'm just not a hardened badass like you guys.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I hope to never find out, but I think I would feel pretty bad about taking anyone's life, even a scumbag that deserved to die. Maybe I'm just not a hardened badass like you guys.

I hope to God I never do either. But if I did and didn't panic, pussy out, or puke and did off the bad guy I really think I wouldn't feel bad.
I'll tell you, unlike most Pelicans I've had a pretty rough life, at least in my younger years. Lived in a car, no job, showering at a state beach, etc. As bad as I did have it, (got a few breaks and taken advantage of them), I'd NEVER rob someone of what they've earned. If I did, was shot & killed, my bad.

Can I have a hug now?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Maybe I'm just not a hardened badass like you guys.

Make no mistake - I would probably piss myself (just for starters) if it ever came to that. I would really worry about my ability to remain calm and focused if either my family or I were ever in mortal danger. No tough guy, no bad ass here. I just think in the long term, in those reflective, retrospective moments it just wouldn't bother me. It wouldn't give me much of a warm glow, either, but I think I would be pleased to remember I "won"...

[flipper35]

I think I would be scared to death and ticked off beyond comprehension that someone would put my family in danger. When it is all said and done I don't know how I would feel other than it is a better outcome than harm to my family.

[gnashings]

I live in Canada right now, we have a sort of "castle doctrine": if a criminal breaks into your house, you are supposed to treat them like a king.
Jokes aside, the biggest mistake regarding firearms is the belief that you buy it, hide it, and hope to never see it again.
As to the "I short shucked once so I bought an auto..."...I can't even begin to point out the many shades of backwards in that logic. Not that modern autos aren't reliable, but substituting the possibility of a ones own mistake (which can be remedied with training) for the possibility of a failure to feed (over which you will have no control nor warning) is silly.
Having said that, with full power high brass defensive loads, and a high quality firearm like the mossy, I'd sleep sound.
Despite what the liberal media shoves down our throats, armed, law abiding good people defend themselves all the time, and yes, often crimes are diffused by the very possibility of an armed citizen lawfully protecting their life and family. When all you have are seconds, police are just minutes away. Ill gladly deal with legal fallout compared to knowing my family was harmed and I did nothing. Even here in the people's republic of Canada where criminals have more rights than I do.

[onewhippedpuppy]

This seemed appropriate.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

My sister was once play fighting with her new BF in the front yard. Our Blue Heeler saw this, realized she couldn't get out the front door (closed), so she ran into the kitchen, jumped up to the window over the sink in one leap, broke the screen off the window, ran outside and cornered the guy.

They are powerful and loyal companions.

My two Heelers are the best alarm system I can ever have. ( plus I have my Boxer/Pit mix for audio visual backup..) They are vehemently protective of our house and property. A person cant get within an inch of our property line without them freaking out. One always sleeps in our bedroom with us and the other always stays in view of the front door. They will even switch off . They are amazing.

[on2wheels52]

"......a high quality firearm like the mossy...."

They're ok, of course, but I don't think I'd be quite so generous as that.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Make no mistake - I would probably piss myself (just for starters) if it ever came to that. I would really worry about my ability to remain calm and focused if either my family or I were ever in mortal danger. No tough guy, no bad ass here. I just think in the long term, in those reflective, retrospective moments it just wouldn't bother me. It wouldn't give me much of a warm glow, either, but I think I would be pleased to remember I "won"...

I'm happy I haven't had a situation like that either. The worst was having a guy (level 4 sex offender) take a shotgun off the rack and use it to put a round in his head in the parking lot (he brought his own ammo). A couple of customers and myself were glad he didn't want to take anyone along with him. It wasn't one of my better days at the pawn shop, but I've had no bad dreams out of the affair either.
Jim

[Jim Bremner]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Make no mistake - I would probably piss myself (just for starters) if it ever came to that. I would really worry about my ability to remain calm and focused if either my family or I were ever in mortal danger. No tough guy, no bad ass here. I just think in the long term, in those reflective, retrospective moments it just wouldn't bother me. It wouldn't give me much of a warm glow, either, but I think I would be pleased to remember I "won"...

I bought a 1911 on the street when I was 19. I didn't grow up in a low income area but I really wanted a WW!! colt 45. a few nights later I'm in bed and I hear someone creeping around my parents garden outside of my window. I slide off of the bed grab the 1911, load the magazine into place pulled the slide back ant started taking aim at where I heard the noise. The window was open and off comes my window screen. I removed my finger from the trigger guard and started tacking up slack as a head filled the sights. I asked "who's there" It was my sister coming home late from a date.


I know who I am and I'm glad that I asked but if the person would have been hostile and made another move they would have not made another.

[Gretch]

I have a lot of experience hunting with pump shotguns. Hunting is absolutely nothing like home defense. Get all the practice you want ontario canada, it will make very little difference when you have to respond in a panic, adrenalin dump, woke out of a sound sleep or what ever.

I agree with the premise that one should be very familiar with their choice of HD weapon, practice with it frequently ect. My point, which you missed completely in your know it all arrogance, is the fewer things that can go wrong the better one's odds are of coming out on top.

I choose the 930 auto loader after specing out my HD needs with careful thought and research over a period of about 18 months. I didn't want just ANY auto loader.

The advice was given with that thought and background experience, and I would give it again. It wasn't good advice for you......... I get that.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

. I think having a death on your conscience would take some time to get over, even a justified one.

It depends on the person. Some get over it better than others. There are many out there that have fought wars and survived mentally after having killed others. No different if somebody enters your house and you are protecting your family and yourself.

There are lots of ex service people walking around mentally scarred and that included my father who was a bomber pilot during WW2. You do what you have to do. How you feel after killing depends on YOU.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

I bought a 1911 on the street when I was 19. I didn't grow up in a low income area but I really wanted a WW!! colt 45. a few nights later I'm in bed and I hear someone creeping around my parents garden outside of my window. I slide off of the bed grab the 1911, load the magazine into place pulled the slide back ant started taking aim at where I heard the noise. The window was open and off comes my window screen. I removed my finger from the trigger guard and started tacking up slack as a head filled the sights. I asked "who's there" It was my sister coming home late from a date.


I know who I am and I'm glad that I asked but if the person would have been hostile and made another move they would have not made another.

That is a nice segue into a question that I was going to ask. Of the "shoot first and ask questions later" crowd, how many of you have kids? My CCH instructor had a very similar story to Jim's. Late at night, he is awoken by a crash in the kitchen. He grabs his nightstand handgun and creeps into the kitchen with the safety off, takes aim, and prepares to shoot.........his teenage son, who was supposed to be staying at a friend's house but instead came home. He was making a late night snack in the kitchen and dropped something.

[Gretch]

"Shoot first ask questions later" Now there is a philosophy that has "a lot shades of backwards" with it.

One of my biggest frustrations in the hunting game is hunters who do not practice the ten commandments of gun safety. These straight forward rules make a lot of sense and anyone who owns a gun or even rents one at a shooting range should be able to spout off all ten by memory.

And hunting is a voluntary sport, (most of the time) where as self defense comes as a complete surprise and MUST be planned for.

[matt f]

Originally Posted by Gretch

"Shoot first ask questions later" Now there is a philosophy that has "a lot shades of backwards" with it.

One of my biggest frustrations in the hunting game is hunters who do not practice the ten commandments of gun safety. These straight forward rules make a lot of sense and anyone who owns a gun or even rents one at a shooting range should be able to spout off all ten by memory.

And hunting is a voluntary sport, (most of the time) where as self defense comes as a complete surprise and MUST be planned for.

Agreed.
One of them...identify your target and what's behind your target.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by Gretch

One of my biggest frustrations in the hunting game is hunters who do not practice the ten commandments of gun safety. These straight forward rules make a lot of sense and anyone who owns a gun or even rents one at a shooting range should be able to spout off all ten by memory.

6 of the "10 commandments" are NOT what you should be following for a defensive situation. They are great for the hunter who fires three rounds a year.

Jeff Cooper's "4 rules" are (which are four of the "10 commandments") the mindset to maintain.

Unless, of course, you think the perp will wait until you put on eye and hearing protection, or wait until you load your spoon. Or perhaps he'll wait until you have function-checked your spoon.

Originally Posted by Col. Cooper

We hoped by this time that the standard rules of safe gunhandling would have become universal throughout the world. They have been arrived at by careful consideration over the years, and they do not need modification or addition. We trust that all the family have them by heart in all languages, but for those who came in late here they are again:

1) All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
3) Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
4) Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

Those will do. We need all four and we do not need five. It should not be necessary to belabor this issue, but life is not perfect.