NYPD shoot hammer weilding man

[RonDent]

Looks to me like another case of suicide by cop. He "seems" to have waited until he saw the cop then attacked the guy. Happens all the time now days.

[Mike80911]

It is this thread and many other threads like this one that my comments are directed towards. Stating how many people are shot by Police without stating how many were justified is just trying to create an anti cop sentiment. So I chose to post a justified shooting to show the statements made in these threads such as the one below are just ridiculous.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/860089-land-free-us-police-have-killed-least-5-600-people-since-2000-a.html

[vash]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

I love how you reply to a thread that makes no sense. Now that seems stupid

Haha. Thread makes sense. Example doesn't.

But I do see where you went with it. Touché.

[Baz]

Much ado about nothing here.

It was good police work to take down the hammer wielding assailant.

Every day cops all over the world do their jobs correctly.

And for that I am grateful, as are many many others.

But the media loves to create controversy and friction so when cops don't do their job correctly (especially when we have race differentials) guess what happens. Every damn thing is magnified!

I take each situation on it's own merits. But I understand how there are many who do not but hey the world is full of uninformed bigots.

I'd like to see more cops speak out against the bad ones. But that doesn't happen very much because as I understand it no cop wants to go against a brother in arms.

So if you are a good cop (as are most cops) it must be frustrating to read posts where cops are being unfairly admonished.

But like I said every situation is different so let's take each situation on it;s own merits and at the same time continue to give thanks to our cops who do it the right way.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Baz

But the media loves to create controversy and friction so when cops don't do their job correctly (especially when we have race differentials) guess what happens. Every damn thing is magnified!

When a landscaper doesn't do their job correctly, a plant dies or someone's yard looks like hell.

When a cop doesn't do their job correctly, damn things like life, and death, are indeed magnified.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

When a landscaper doesn't do their job correctly, a plant dies or someone's yard looks like hell.

When a cop doesn't do their job correctly, damn things like life, and death, are indeed magnified.

Correct. Did you hear on the news about the train in Philly, you know, the one that made its run on time without incident? Nope, you heard about the one that crashed. Cops doing their job well should be like on time trains. The big difference is the judgement calls involved. Someone can always second guess you, even when you make the correct decision when using violence against a person in the course of your job. Didn't do it soon enough, did it too soon. There are lives on the line, theirs, the criminals', the general public, and there is a great deal of speculation about what would/should have happened by people who weren't faced with the decision, and that speculation is presented as fact. Sometimes a job well-done is treated like a train wreck, because sometimes a bad shoot is treated like an on time train.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Why conflate the trivialities and generalities of news with the actualities and absolutes of action?

It looks like you had a lot to say and I provided a catalyst for you. Happy to help.

[john70t]

A justified shooting as it appears.
Good cop.

An everyday event.

[Jeff Higgins]

The chart below shows the number of civilians shot by police in various countries in 2011. The actual numbers in the U.S. are unknown; the data shown relies on strictly voluntary reporting by our country's thousands of departments. The real number is likely much, much higher.

Why is the U.S. so drastically different in this regard than similar countries? Maybe there is something to the old adage that "when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"...

[speeder]

You're not the brightest bulb, Mike, but I like you.

[speeder]

That was my Higgins impression, BTW.

[Jeff Higgins]

Oh, c'mon Denis, you gotta do better than that. At least say something about his motorcycle, or his mattress, or something like that.

[Mike80911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

The chart below shows the number of civilians shot by police in various countries in 2011. The actual numbers in the U.S. are unknown; the data shown relies on strictly voluntary reporting by our country's thousands of departments. The real number is likely much, much higher.

Why is the U.S. so drastically different in this regard than similar countries? Maybe there is something to the old adage that "when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"...

As I stated before showing statistics on Police involved shootings without stating what led to those shootings and if they were justified is useless. I have been witness to several instances where deadly force was used and in each of those instances it was justified.
It would be fair to require states to keep records of this but those records should include if in fact the use of deadly physical force was justified. I have also found that even when presented with all of the facts some people can not accept that the police were justified in their actions.
I am not saying the Police are always right some of the things I have seen lately I can not wrap my head around but when an officer is right and does their job effectively we as law abiding citizens need to support them.

[Jeff Higgins]

Really, Mike? We are looking at a minimum of a 200:1 disparity over similar countries (and a reported figure approaching 400:1, with the FBI themselves saying they are quite sure it is much higher), and that does not alarm you?

We see other nations quite able to effectively police their populations with nowhere near the number of citizens being shot by their police. I mean, come on - even if we were only double, or half again, those shot by police in similar "first world" or "developed" countries, we should probably be concerned. But FOUR HUNDRED TIMES or more? Really? Shouldn't we, as a society, demand answers as to why our police seem to think they are "justified" at such an outrageous rate compared to other countries?

In any other human endeavor, finding one population that performs that far outside of the average, that far beyond the norm, would demand the most thorough investigation we could collectively muster. And let's not forget - this one involves human lives. And you want us to just blindly support this?

[wdfifteen]

I should point out that your chart doesn't show a rate, just numbers. It's hard to tell if the news is good, bad, or indifferent from just the raw number.

Not many people make the news when they do their jobs correctly. Cops get more recognition than most. Google "policeman saves" and see what you get.

[pavulon]

I've not been outside the US much but it seems to me that the general US population has become much more angry and violent in my 50 years of walking around. There is little room for discussion or understanding. Everyone is opinionated and always right...including many of the police.

Someone here on Pelican has a signature line that says "frequently wrong but never in doubt". The possibility of being wrong seems not to bubble to the top for most people today.

[Mike80911]

Sorry posted twice

[Mike80911]

You're chart answers no questions at all. How do the other countries keep their records? Are all police involved shootings recorded? How many violent crimes are committed? How many Police Officers are there in those countries? In the countries you compare the US to in your chart it is all but impossible for anyone to posses a gun. In the US guns are everywhere and believe it or not criminals even use those guns against Police Officers and innocent civilians. You can show all the charts you want to prove your point but without all of the information again I say they are useless.
I spent 20 years patrolling the toughest streets of NY much of that time during the highest crime rates in history. I never killed anyone and many of my fellow officers never did either. That does not make me special it just means I was fortunate to not have to take the life of another.
Police work is usually violent by nature. Have you ever patrolled a high crime area? Have you ever been shot at? Responded to a violent robbery in progress? Or faced a maniac swinging a hammer at your head? How would you handle a violent situation that was either your life or theirs? Would you worry that the ratio on your chart would increase or would you want to go home that night?
I never said to blindly support them I said when they are justified and save lives we need to support them. If you chose not to that is your right as a citizen of this country.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I seem to recall reading how armed criminals have the upper hand in many other nations. Citizens acting in self defense are put in jail for shooting an intruder. Police with billy clubs that are defenseless against criminals. Personally I think the vast majority of police shootings are justified, and I'm grateful for those willing to put themselves in harm's way.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I seem to recall reading how armed criminals have the upper hand in many other nations. Citizens acting in self defense are put in jail for shooting an intruder. Police with billy clubs that are defenseless against criminals. Personally I think the vast majority of police shootings are justified, and I'm grateful for those willing to put themselves in harm's way.

The "vast majority" of police shootings probably are justified. That still leaves the ones that are not. If the vast majority of people shooting intruders in self-defense in their homes, should we just ignore the ones that are murder?

I never understand these strange arguments or rationalizations. The two things, (cops doing their jobs professionally and justified shootings vs. "bad" police shootings that are criminal), have very little or nothing to do with each other. Killing another human being is either legally and morally justified or it is not, regardless of whether you're wearing a uniform when you do it. An argument could be made that it's worse if you're wearing a uniform, ie. abuse under the color of authority.

And lastly, just to drive a spike through this commonly used invalid argument whenever someone is caught with a smoking gun or bloody knife standing over a dead body, good deeds do not cancel bad deeds-ever!

If someone is caught dumping toxic chemicals into a river or murdering Iraqi civilians during a war, giving money to a children's hospital or being a good dog owner does not erase the previous crime! This is something that has bugged me all my life; every famous criminal supposedly had a heart of gold or a soft spot for children, etc...it's just such a load of horse schit. Now people are taking it a step further and using the actions of good cops, (justified shootings), to try to absolve the crimes of murderous cops who shoot unarmed people when it was completely unjustified.

I'm only quoting you because you used the "vast majority" line. It makes no difference, it's a BS argument. A waste of breath. The vast majority of motorists do not consume a quart of tequila and drive down the freeway in the wrong direction, killing a minivan full of children. The vast majority of Iraq veterans with PTSD do not murder the fellow vet trying to help them. The vast majority of mothers do not drown their infants. Who gives a schit?? And who falls for these football shaped turd arguments? Jezuz...