Question about Aeroquip fittings and what sizes I need

BGCarrera32 · 08-18-2003, 07:52 AM

Hi-

I'm looking to replace the lines in my fuel system, both in the shift tunnel and between the injector rails/pressure regualtors on my Carrera. I would like to go with Aeroquip, but am wondering about fittings.

Does anyone know off hand what fitting is needed for the injector rails, the stock pressure regulators, and attachment to the fuel filter, etc? Many of the vendors list what size fitting fits what hose, but not what the flare side of the fitting is (which obviously is metric on a Carrera.) I'd like to make an order, and get my list of parts as close as I can first crack before I pull everything apart and begin the replumbing.

What would be ideal is a bill of materials for this project, but I know that's probably asking a bit much.

I've done a bunch of searches here, but need more specifics about what fittings are done, what you're experiences are, etc.

Thanks in advance,
BG

304065 · 08-18-2003, 08:37 AM

I would use -6AN, you will need -6AN to metric adapters for the Carrera. The only way to REALLY tell is to get out a caliper and measure the thread size, and get a thread pitch gauge. For example, the fuel injection fittings for the MFI fuel filter console are 14mm x 1.5 thread, and Aeroquip actually makes a fitting for a brake hydraulic system that works perfectly.

Maybe somebody has a spare carrera system sitting around they could take measurements from?

KTL · 08-18-2003, 10:19 AM

Do you have the Aeroquip .pdf catalog?

Go here:

http://www.aeroquip.com/pages/performance.html

The Technical Information link on the navigation menu is pretty handy.

Here's the .pdf catalog for the performance products catalog (found by clicking on the Literature link on the navigation menu and then picking the "To View the Performance Products catalogue...........):

http://www.aeroquip.com/media/A-SPPE-MC0001-E.pdf

Once the .pdf catalog opens, you can save a copy of it to your hard drive.

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

BG,
What's the stock setup use, a metal line thought the tunnel? Have you priced Aeroquip? It's OMG expensive.
-Chris

BGCarrera32 · 08-18-2003, 11:35 AM

Thanks for the links KTL.

Chris, there are 2 rubber fuel lines along the drivers side of the shift tunnel, one is a pressure and one is a return line. They are factory (Pelican) about $75 a piece with fittings. The stock Carrera has 1 hard vacuum line in the tunnel also, it connects the overflow tank in the driver's side front wheel well above the washer fluid tank, to the charcoal canister in the passenger side rear wheel well.

I suspect one of my rubber lines is leaking (ever soooo slightly), as I have been plagued by a fuel stink problem in the car and up front under the hood. When I pull up my shift coupler cover on the tunnel, I can smell gas. My hard vacuum line checks out, I can hold 10 lbs in it for 10 minutes and with no leakdown.

I thought rather than replace with factory, I would play with some Aeroquip stuff and go the cats meow. I plan to do all the stuff in the engine compartment, and run the 2 new hoses through the shift tunnel with connectors on each end, so things can be easily disconnected or changed if necessary.

-BG

304065 · 08-18-2003, 11:39 AM

Running -6AN lines through the tunnel is right up there with the hardest jobs I have ever undertaken. An engine drop is easier.

Also, if you run the lines, you will probably want to run continuous segments from the tank to the engine compartment- the likelihood of a failure is much higher at a junction than in the run of a line.

I spent well over $1200 on the materials to do this right and several months of weekends planning, ordering, and executing it.

Hell, I'm not saying don't do it, but you should know what is involved. . .

So when do you start? THAT'S the Pelican spirit!

BGCarrera32 · 08-18-2003, 11:44 AM

Whoa. I must be really missing something at $1200. How many feet did you run through the tunnel?

My main goal is the 2 -6AN lines in through the tunnel first. At $5 a foot, 20 feet tops, theres $100 in hose. Say 6 or 8 fittings + adapters, maybe $150 more. Tell me I'm not missing something...

Zeke · 08-18-2003, 12:11 PM

Something is wrong with $1200. I spent $250 for oil lines to the front trunk of the 914 in -12 braided lines and AN fittings. That was for 25 feet.

On the difficulty part, I can't tell you how many times I have used my electricians' fish tape to retrieve and pull lines/ wires thru cars. I have even shot silicon lube inside wiring harnesses and pulled a new wire into and out of an existing harness. Fishing the tape thru the heater ducts on the 914 and pulling the oil lines took all of 5 minutes.

304065 · 08-18-2003, 12:18 PM

BG:

Partial list of the CRAP I bought to do this job:

4" angle grinder
Cutoff Wheel
Duct Tape
6" Bench Vise
Vise Jaws
-6AN Wrenches (2)
30' -6AN hose
Earl's Assembly Lube
Pipe Cleaners (to clean hose after making cuts
Russell -6AN inline fuel filter
Adel Clamps, aviation style, 15 or so
Orange Fiberglass firebraid, for insulating hose aft of tunnel around heat exhangers, 20 feet
Sharpie and ruler to mark hose during assembly process

Fittings ($15 each for a 90 degree to $5 each for a straight, I ended up using about 30 fittings in my system-

90 at cell to pump
adapter -6an to NPT for pump (2)
adapter -6an to NPT for pump air bleed
tee for air bleed into return
straight couplers for air bleed to tee (2)
straight coupler for supply hose to console
90 at inlet to MFI fuel filter console (4)
14mm x 1.5 metric adapter from 90 to console (4)
straight coupler for lines to and from MFI pump (4)
14mm x 1.5 metric adapters for pump supply and return (2)
straight coupler for return hose to pressure regulator
-6an to NPT for regulator inlet and return (2)
NPT plug for regulator "through port"
straight coupler for line from return to tee (2)
straight coupler for tee to return fitting on cell
90 at cell for return fitting

That's 30 fittings, not all are super-expensive, but a whole bunch of little blue and red anodized bits.

OK, so once I went to an in-tank pump the whole thing was simplified greatly, so figure on 1/3 fewer connectors.

I don't know how many pieces there are in the motronic system, with any luck, much fewer. Which is, I suppose, why you were asking the question to begin with

Anyway, even if you take out the CAPEX items like the grinder and the vise, it's still a pretty hefty tab. But the fellow above who advised to get the AQP catalog and carefully diagram the system was on the right track. Once you are certain, the cost is lower since you don't order unnecessary stuff.

Good luck!

BGCarrera32 · 08-18-2003, 01:09 PM

Thanks for the list John! Once I start measuring threads, etc. this should go much smoother.

Great tip on the fish tape BTW. Once I lost my fish tape and used a tape measure...well, I thought it was clever anyway...

304065 · 08-18-2003, 04:08 PM

BG,

I would be surprised if you needed that many pieces, that's a racing setup with an external pump, fuel pressure regulator and fuel cell. But all the supporting stuff is the same, vise with jaws to hold the hose, duct tape to wrap it to keep from fraying, chop saw blade to cut it cleanly (hacksaw doesn't work well), assembly lube to get the fittings on, cleaners to clean out the black rubber particles, etc.

I may have had a more difficult experience because I was trying to fish the lines through the sub-tunnel within the tunnel in an early 911. I understand that the later cars don't have such an arrangement, and I would have no idea about a 914.

BGCarrera32 · 08-18-2003, 04:27 PM

I'm good on tools, and have no doubt I can pull it off. What I am confused the most about though is that I imagine that the fittings on the stock fuel tank, the filter, the injector rails, etc. are all of a metric thread. I don't want to end up with all sorts of adapters and mismatched stuff.

Now am I missing something with the numbering scheme "-6AN", etc.? Does the number "6" mean something??

Thanks for taking the time to reply...

-BG

cary · 08-18-2003, 04:59 PM

My 2c.

Use the exsisting lines as your 'fish tape". After removing the rubber bushings, cut off the elbow at the front by the fuel pump. Pull it on thru. It needs a little "english" in a few places.
You'll want to drop the engine to do it. Real easy that way. You can't get at the body straps that take the lines up to the left corner of the engine bay.

Have Fun

304065 · 08-18-2003, 07:36 PM

Hmm, lemme see here. You should expect to encounter a barb fitting at the tank supply and return, with rubber hoses running back to the pump near the crossmember, then swaged connections to the steel hardlines, then more swaged connections at tunnel aft, then probably some more worm clamps up at the fuel filter.

Conundrum: what AQP fitting can you use at the tank to replace the barb-type fitting?

Some will suggest that you just slide the stainless hose on over the existing fitting and put a clamp on. I say, you bought 1000 psi hose so you could have a 1000 psi connection, don't stop now, or you might as well go to the factory braided stuff available from Pelican for like $5/foot.
But remember that the tank fittings have strainers inside, which means an inline fuel filter would be a good idea. But then that means a connection and something hanging down under the car that can develop a hidden leak. . .see what I mean, it's tough to out-engineer the factory. But persevere.

-6AN is a military spec that means 6 times 1/16 of an inch (if I remember correctly), and the AN is Army/Navy. There is a specific specification that sets forth a standard thread, pitch and 37 degree sealing surface. There are also -3, -4, all the way up to -16 which some use for oil lines.

http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Programs/MilSpec/listdocs.asp?BasicDoc=MIL-DTL-8794

Probably more than you wanted to hear but you ask me what time it is, I'll tell you how to build a watch

Paul Thomas · 08-18-2003, 10:10 PM

John,
could you please post some pics of the MFI Aeorquip setup at/around the injection pump?

Thanks,
Paul

BGCarrera32 · 08-19-2003, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Hmm, lemme see here. You should expect to encounter a barb fitting at the tank supply and return

...
Actually on my 84 Carrera, the return line has a flare type fitting back to the tank. There is a barb fitting from the tank tank off running to the fuel pump (sitting right behind the tank), and a banjo fitting from the pump to the pressure line.

John, did you run your lines all the way up to the engine bay, or stop underneath the car behind the shift coupler and put in fittings? I'm just wondering if it makes sense to leave my hard lines in place that run up through the drivers side corner of the engine bay...

Anyway, thanks for the info. Looks like I have a place to start now.

-BG

cowtown · 08-19-2003, 07:33 AM

I got to this thread late, but I'm just finishing up this project on my '75 930 conversion. Part of the hassle was adding a second fuelpump, which obviously isn't an issue for you. I ran Aeroquip -6 through the tunnel and fittings to replace every bit of plastic line in the car. Though it's a CIS car, I found nearly all the fittings to be either 12mmx1.5 or 14mmx1.5. Also useful was the discovery that Earl's sells -6 banjo fittings in the metric sizes. They are called carburetor fittings, and came in handy for the fuel pumps. One of the biggest challenges to me was observing the bend radius of the hose. A lot of the spaces are confined. I think it ended up costing about $400 (I haven't wanted to add up the receipts yet), and John's right that it takes a ton of time. I didn't have that separate sub-tunnel in my center console, so I had an easier time of it than he did, though.

It sounds like you're ready to go, but if you want to see any pictures or anything, I can post some.

BGCarrera32 · 08-19-2003, 07:49 AM

cowtown...do post pictures!!! Please do!!

Thanks!!!!

RoninLB · 08-19-2003, 08:24 AM

has anybody come across fire resistant flexable fuel lines?

cowtown · 08-19-2003, 05:41 PM

These might not be the best pictures in terms of visualizing the layout...I looped the lines around in arcs in order to avoid crimping them. Remember I also have that extra rear pump.

A big thanks also to John Cramer for some good advice and references for this stuff. Anyway, here are a few pictures.

Left side line is the return. That's an add-on SC pump. This car only had a rear pump from the factory. I'm still trying to figure out how to use AQP on the feed to the front pump. As noted, it's just a nipple on the tank. I may have to use rubber hose at this one spot. I've also tidied up the lines and installed grommets at the bulkhead since the picture. The pump pressure side is 12x1.5.

The accumulator on my car is the old 2-port type and is 14x1.5. Convert this to AN-6 with an adapter (I did this) or use a metric hose end ($$$). AN-6 to go to the filter...not installed yet. You can also see the pressure side of the rear pump, 12x1.5. The intake side of the rear pump (turbo, threaded, not clamp-on) is 14x1.5 banjo. The black plastic conduit runs 10-Ga power line all the way through the tunnel to the front. The green wire is just hitching a ride in the conduit. It runs from an O2 sensor to an AFM gauge in the dash.

Installing these grommets at the entry to the tunnel was one of the hardest parts.

I'm trying to keep these out of the way of the shift linkage.