led RSR Tail lt. assy.

[911r_parts]

Yes, I thought the description use to read, fits '65 - '89, '65 - '68 requires slight body modification. The inner flange needs to be ground about 3/16 on the top where the lights are and the same on the inside vertical edge.

[Plavan]

FYI guys- I have a set of Rays LED lights. They are great. The fiberglass work is top notch.
The weight of a complete stock 911 rear tail light assembly is
3 pounds 9 oz. (7 pounds 2 oz for the pair) I do not know how people say these things are over 5 pounds each. These are off my 1969.
Rays LED light assembly weighs a tad over 14 oz. each (1 pound 12 oz for the pair painted)
Total weight savings for the rear of the car - 5 pounds, 6 oz.
(I think my math is right )
All weights taken on the same digital scale.

[Plavan]

Here is a picture. I have to do some final buffing/rubbing but they looks great.
Mine are Red/Red because we do not use them turnsignals when racing
Both lights on each side light up... Nice and bright. I need to return a "Brake Check" favor to a fellow racer. I thought these would be a great addition to help.

[afterburn 549]

Now thats eye candy.....Looking good!!

[JTL]

I found this place for led bulbs: http://www.superbrightleds.com/1157.htm

Rgds, Jt

[PcarPhil]

This week I'm installing my led lamps with reverse and I'm having a bit of trouble with the wiring. Ray offered to help but he is traveling this week and mentioned communication may be slow. Please help!

This is what I think I know about the wiring in my '71:

black/yellow stripe - brake light
black/white stripe - turn signal
grey/red stripe - running light
gray/brown stripe - backup light
brown - ground

and the red LED lamps:
white - ground
black - turn/stop
red - tail

the white LED lamp:
black - reverse signal
white - ground

The backup lights work. No problem there. The problem is the brake/running light/turn signal red LED lamp. The LED lamp has three wires. My OE wiring uses four wires. I need to know the proper way of connecting the 4 OE wires to the 3 wires on the back of the LED lamp.

The turn signal seems to be working with the running lights off but when I turn on the running lights the LED lamp does nothing.

Currently I have the wiring connected like this:

red - grey/red stripe
black - black/yellow stripe + black/white stripe
white - brown

for the backup lights:
black - gray/brown stripe
white - brown

The red and white LED lamps both share the same ground.

Is my current wiring correct? Thanks for the help,
-Kaefer

[thrown_hammer]

Here is a close up of the red and amber lamps.

[ted]

Originally posted by JTL
I found this place for led bulbs: http://www.superbrightleds.com/1157.htm

Rgds, Jt

In the fine print it mentions these are no brighter than an incandescent bulb, and that the LED conversion is just for long life. I thought the reason for going LED was to have a brighter light? Also in the fine print some issues about matching the lens color to the LED color?

Has anyone had success with these replacements led bulbs?
Which ones are best suited for 911 tail lights and turn signals?

[Ray 911s]

Hello from the airport terminal!

Kaefer's set up is using a single lamp on each side for all functions Stop/Turn/Tail. For visualization, the photo from Shawn above uses the red lamp for Stop/Tail and the amber lamp for Turn functions. Kaefer's kit substitutes a white lamp for reverse in the location of Shawn's amber turn lamp.

I have one other application similar to Kaefer's, but the wiring turns out to have been non-standard. In theory, a single S/T/T lamp should operate as "on" for tail, "bright" for stop, and alternating on/bright for turn. The standard Porsche harness and flasher doesn't resolve the conflict between between "bright" for stop and turn, so we're working on a patch now.

[911pcars]

"I thought the reason for going LED was to have a brighter light?"

Many aftermarket LED conversion lights are not DOT legal. I don't know whether it has to do with ultimate brightness and/or the off-axis light levels. Many new cars use LED stop/tail lamp assemblies. These probably meet specs by the sheer number of LEDs in the housing and the size of the lamp assembly.

One advantage of LEDs is the faster ON response time compared with incandescent bulbs. At highway speeds, the difference can equate to enough distance to prevent a collision. Late 911s that use a pressure switch in the master cylinder typically require higher brake pedal effort to close the brake light circuit.

The R-type rear TL housings I've seen don't produce a lot of light, especially during the day (and that's with incandescent bulbs). I would suggest adding an LED light bar (3rd brake light) in the rear window to keep the semi trucks off the rear end (see archives for a $20 solution). As far as an aftermarket LED stop/tail lamp, I'd shop for the largest, multiple LED bulb assembly that fits inside the housing/lens.

If the application is a track-only car, one could reduce some add'l weight by replacing the regular taillight harness with one using lighter gauge wire. The amount of current required of LEDs is miniscule compared with incandescent bulbs.

Kaefer,
Just a WAG. If your current wiring connections are the same as the factory setup, perhaps it might have to do with reduced current flow through the system that affects the existing turn signal flasher (relay). Mechanical relays need a minimum threshold current flow to work and LED current requirements are low. JT's LED link shows a device to provide the correct load in the circuit. Or you could use an electronic flasher. However, since the factory uses a 4 prong relay and most flashers are 3-prong, I haven't yet worked out the elec. connections to make this conversion work (it might be easy or not as).

Sherwood

[PcarPhil]

Originally posted by Ray 911s
I have one other application similar to Kaefer's, but the wiring turns out to have been non-standard. In theory, a single S/T/T lamp should operate as "on" for tail, "bright" for stop, and alternating on/bright for turn. The standard Porsche harness and flasher doesn't resolve the conflict between between "bright" for stop and turn, so we're working on a patch now.

Hmm....a patch, eh? Does this mean my white and red lamps won't work correctly with my OE wiring?

If I had a pair of amber lamps I might be able to hack apart the white and amber lamps and make a white/amber combo lamp out of the two seperate lamps.

-Kaefer

[PcarPhil]

Originally posted by 911pcars

Kaefer,
Just a WAG. If your current wiring connections are the same as the factory setup, perhaps it might have to do with reduced current flow through the system that affects the existing turn signal flasher (relay). Mechanical relays need a minimum threshold current flow to work and LED current requirements are low. JT's LED link shows a device to provide the correct load in the circuit. Or you could use an electronic flasher. However, since the factory uses a 4 prong relay and most flashers are 3-prong, I haven't yet worked out the elec. connections to make this conversion work (it might be easy or not as).

Sherwood

Here is a quote from the link mentioned above:

LED brake/tail lamps may not work with some thermal flasher units due to their extremely low current draw. These installations will require an electronic flasher unit, available at your auto parts store. Try to find flashers designed to work with LED bulbs, often HEAVY DUTY flashers will

LED bulbs may cause some newer vehicles to indicate a bulb is burnt out (because of their low power consumption). Some cars indicate this by increasing the flash rate of the turn signals, some turn on a bad bulb indicator.This can be remedied with our Load Resistors wired across the turn signal bulbs to simulate a filament bulb load. We have these available by our LED turn signal bulbs in our online shopping cart

I noticed that without the running lights on and the turn signal working I was getting indication on my guages that I had a burnt out bulb. I might have to investigate the electronic flashers and load resistors. Arrgghhhh more $$$.

I'm going to try and hold off and See what Ray comes up with for a patch.

-Kaefer

[Plavan]

Ray,
Are there 2 different levels of brightness with the 3 wire reds? I hooked both the red and black wires from all the lamps to the brake light wire. When I tried, they did not get brighter than the regular brake brightness (From just using a single wire for brakes). There should be two levels of brightness...correct? Is this "patch" going to resolve this?

[Ray 911s]

With the 3-wire lamp, the black & ground circuit turns the lights in "on" mode and the red & ground circuit lights the "bright" mode. (check your instruction sheet to make sure my memory is OK here)

Chad, your set up uses four three-wire lamps. For lights you should use the black and for brakes you should use the red. Turning on the tail lights will light all four lamps in "on" mode. When braking all four lights will increase to the "bright" mode. You should never connect both the red and black wires to the same feed. The circuit board won't suffer, but as you observed, you'll confuse the wiring fault (lamp out) circuit in the car.

Scott, you can't split the lens to get two colors. In order to get DOT compliant for both brightness and 180 degree visibility the lamps use two LEDs, both on the same circuit. The internal circuit board controls switching of the lamps depending on which lead is "hot" from the wiring harness.

Use of a single S/T/T lamp will require a circuit or patch to allow the turn function to dominate the stop function when both are activated. I discovered that the test car utilized a four-pole turn signal flasher so this issue didn't surface. The fix should be pretty basic - the intention will be to modify the turn signal from "bright vs off" to "bright vs on."

To get running now, Scott, disconnect the black/white Porsche wire from the black wire on the new lamps. While I'm travelling I don't have the installation instructions with me. I assume from your note above that the instructions indicate that black is for stop/tail? If so, then by disconnecting the blac/white from the black and making sure that the grey/red is attached to the red, you should have reverse lamps, tail lamps (running lights), and brake lamps operable.

Sorry, I'm shooting from memory while I'm on the road.

[PcarPhil]

Ray,

As per the instructions that came with the lamps:

The red LED lamps:
white - ground
black - turn/stop
red - tail

The white LED lamp:
black - reverse signal
white - ground

My factory wiring:
black/yellow stripe - brake light
black/white stripe - turn signal
grey/red stripe - running light
gray/brown stripe - backup light
brown - ground

Here's is the way the wiring is currently connected:

red - grey/red stripe
black - black/yellow stripe + black/white stripe
white - brown

From the post above it looks like if I snip the black/white stripe wire then I'll be ok until the patch is out? Will I be receiving the patch when it's available? Thanks for the update,
-Kaefer

Edit: I won't be ok by snipping the black/white stripe wire. That's my turn signal wire. With the crazy drivers around here I don't want to get rear-ended or ticketed because of not signaling for a turn. Arrgghhh....

[Vintage911Racer]

Ray,

I sent you a PM about getting these gor my car. Hope to hear from you soon. Have a good trip.

Vintage 911 Racer.

[vlocci]

Ray,

also tried a PM, but not sure if your around.

I'm also interested in a set for my 930. Shoot me an email at vlocci@rcn.com when you get a chance. I'll wait to hear from you before pulling the trigger on a AR concepts set.

Thanks,

Vin

[Ray 911s]

Hi, gang. Where I am the wireless broadband is spotty, but the steaks are good. I'll be back in Chi-town soon. In the meantime, while I have a pretty good signal I will get to the PMs.

Thanks

[Ray 911s]

Hmmm. I don't have any new PMS, guys. I'll try to email you directly.

[Ray 911s]

Mark - I'm unsure how to reach you. Tried PM but it must not be working.