Whats a complete MFI system worth.

[speedingbullitt]

I am looking at buying a complete MFI system from a 73T that belongs to someone on this board and I would like to know a fair price to offer. What would the stacks, throttle bodies and pump be worth seperately? I would like to put these parts back on my 72 t. Possibly upgraded to s specs. Keep in mind these parts would need to be overhauled/rebuilt. I appreciate any comments. Thanks everyone!!

[Rot 911]

$500

[82SC]

not unless it is 911S MFI stuff

depends on the condition...but some people just don't like the finickyness of the MFI and switch to carbs...I know I've seen complete setup practially given away in the classified section.

but then again if everything is in perfect working order...throttle bodies do not need rebuild, pump is working fine...it maybe worth a bit, but still not 500

[jluetjen]

Here are some completed auctions to give you an idea...

PORSCHE 911 MFI injection pump build to RS spec

Porsche 911 MFI Pump And Throttle Bodies

Porsche 911 2.2E MFI Pump

Porsche 911 2.4T MFI Stacks and Manifolds

Keep in mind that these are actual completed auctions rather then just wishful asking prices.

[Porsche Doc]

I sold a couple complete setups for a S & E set on Ebay a few months ago. $1000 each

[RarlyL8]

I gave away a complete MFI from my old '73T to a fellow PelicanHead a few years back. Replaced the system with a simple and attractive set of Webers.
That is what it was worth to me.

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by 82SC
not unless it is 911S MFI stuff

depends on the condition...but some people just don't like the finickyness of the MFI and switch to carbs...I know I've seen complete setup practially given away in the classified section.

but then again if everything is in perfect working order...throttle bodies do not need rebuild, pump is working fine...it maybe worth a bit, but still not 500

Sorry, but I pretty much disagree with every aspect of your post.

[speedingbullitt]

Thanks guys.... Some people give them away and some make a fortune. The one post from john listed a complete system for a T sold on EBAY for $255.00. Is this a fair price to offer for a T system? Thanks for everyone input!!

Steve

[techweenie]

So many variables: how complete? When was it last running?

A good running MFI setup taken out of a car and carefully stored for 1/2year or less is likely to bring at least $500.

An incomplete system, unknown running condition and stored for years could easily cost $1,500 to put right.

[Bobboloo]

The E and S versions obviously bring more money since the end user won't need to have the bodies bored $$ for more HP applications.

The cost of rebuilding this stuff is not cheap. I myself wouldn't pay more than $150 for a T setup that needed work. The $150 covers the cost of a core 2.4 injection pump in my book.

The "T" TB's and stacks are a dime a dozen. If they aren't corroded however they usually fair pretty well since the T cam has so little overlap that the throttles don't get worn out as easily as the S version from pulsating.

A "T" setup in good running condition is worth about $750 IMHO.

[jluetjen]

Is this a fair price to offer for a T system?

Speedingbullitt;
I wish that I could tell you that there is a "fair" price, but it varies from deal to deal. My point is that other people have sold their units for that price. You can also total up the partial system prices and wind up in roughly the same ball-park. If you're going to auction it, don't worry about a "fair" price. Start it at the price that you'd be will to accept and then let people bid it up from there. If your asking price is too high you'll get no bidders. If it is too low you'll get multiple people bidding on it and it will go up to the "fair price". I recently saw an auction for some used transmission tools go higher then the purchase price of the same tools (new!) from Pelican or Performance Products. Go figure!

If your asking because you want to do a non-auction deal, then the deals that I listed will give you an idea what a potential buyer's options are. Obviously if your asking price is above what they could get the same stuff for on eBay, a rational person would take the stuff on eBay. The funny thing is that not everyone is rational. I wish I could tell you that the system was worth $1500, but I just don't see many people buying at that price. If you can find one, by all means -- do the deal!

[zotman72]

Well one thing that is quite valuable in an MFI parts sale is functional injectors. New these puppies run over $80 a pop (no idea what the current price is) so I am constantly looking for where I can scab some cheap. I think leaky injectors (ones that do not hold a charge) is one of the major ways, gas gets into the oil. Ask me how I know. I would venture to say a functional T MFI setup is worth about $350-500 depending if the pump is stored correctly.

[Grady Clay]

You guys are talking apples and oranges here; with a few guava and lemons thrown in.

There are three main things you need to know:

1) What model and year? There are significant differences between a ‘69E 2.0, ‘72T 2.4, and a ‘73RS 2.7. These differences affect the desirability (market) and the suitability for your intended use.

2) What condition? There are some available rarely that are in like new condition. Others may require a pump rebuild, throttle bodies rebuilt, nozzles replaced, new Gilmer belt and pulleys, new electric fuel pump, and more.

3) How complete? If you have a non-MFI engine and 911 you will need:
MFI pimp, stand, oil plumbing, and hardware.
Throttle bodies, stacks, and air filter assembly.
Nozzles and pipes.
Throttle cross bar and linkage.
Gilmer belt, pump drive pulleys, and tin.
Left heat exchanger with hot air outlet for thermostat.
Left engine tin and thermostat hoses.
Fuel filter & console and fuel pipes & hoses (possibly a return in the tunnel.)
Electric fuel pump and associated plumbing & hardware.
Cold start plumbing, wiring, and electrics (relays, thermo time switch, breather housing.)
And more.

Then there is the issue of the heads. T, E, and S all have different diameters for stacks, throttle bodies and intake port. The head also needs to accommodate the MFI nozzle.

Of course the compression ratio (P&Cs) differed originally as did the cams. The cams, pump, stacks, throttle bodies, and heads are the critical part of a complete system.

There is also the issue of your use. Do you want it original appearing or not? Is it a track 911? Is it a daily?

While there are many skilled mechanics around the world, there may not be an MFI expert close to you. Most choose to become an owner-expert with all the tuning tools and technical information (or at least access.)

I think the MFI is the best responding and most powerful original FI system delivered on an early 911. With care, it can be adapted to many uses and configurations. No, it is not known for great fuel economy. Yes, it is somewhat complex and subject to age and wear. It is my choice for an early 911.

2c

Best,
Grady

[911SCfanatic]

depending if the pump is stored correctly

What needs to be done to store an MFI pump?

[82SC]

well Jim,

I am interested in why you disagree with every point of my post...I don't think your post really contributed to the discussion

since I've been in the market for S MFI stuff I think I've seen enough transactions and completed enough myself to have a fair grasp of what a decent price is

and as some posts have supported, some people give away their entire setups, because there are relatively fewer enthusiasts that want to go the MFI route then those that just like the carb setup



MJ

[Jim Richards]

MJ, you're correct. I was sidetracked by my day job. I'll contribute more now.

"not unless it is 911S MFI stuff" - T and E MFI systems can be adapted for S or RS applications. It costs money, but if you want MFI. Also, S and RS MFI systems are very pricey. To do a 2.7RS/MFI engine, I considered the price of used S and RS systems, and compared them to buying a T system and modifying it. At the time I was looking, modifying a T system was the most cost effective solution.

"but some people just don't like the finickyness of the MFI and switch to carbs" - MFI systems in good condition are anything but finicky. Once you set them (per Check, Measure, and Adjust), they stay "in tune." I've owned carbed engines and I have a couple of years experience with my MFI engine. Carbs are finicky.

I know I've seen complete setup practially given away in the classified section. - Maybe so, but last year, when I was researching the costs for my 2.7RS rebuild, T systems were selling for $4xx-$5xx, E systems were $5xx-$6xx, S and RS systems were at insane prices.

but then again if everything is in perfect working order...throttle bodies do not need rebuild, pump is working fine...it maybe worth a bit, but still not 500 - Once again, this was not the case in 2004. Perhaps things have changed in 2005.

Was a 72-73 T MFI system, now it's S/RS. Sorry, but I didn't include the upgraded inj. pump in the pic.

[Grady Clay]

Bill,

There are two sections to a MFI pump; one handles the fuel and the other is lubricated by the engine oil. Both areas need to be purged of the original fluids and replaced with a preservative oil.

Pages 42-43 of CMA have some good instructions.
Check Measure Adjust (CMA)
http://www.scatliff.mb.ca/pelican/MFI_Check_Measure_Adjust.pdf

I think the MFI pumps were originally preserved with the Bosch Testing Oil 61 v 11. I would prefer something like Marvel Mystery Oil that has more viscosity.

Both the fuel area and the oil area need to be thoroughly rinsed with the preservative oil to insure that no gasoline or water/fuel contaminated oil remains. A slow electric drill works well for spinning the pump. Never spin the pump without oil, preservative oil, and/or gasoline in the appropriate areas.

The best situation with a running engine is to add preservative oil to the fuel prior to the engine being removed. Let it fowl the plugs.

Protecting the nozzles is as important issue as the pump.

Never leave a pump unprotected. Even just pouring the gasoline and old oil out and pouring in some fresh engine oil while turning the pump by hand is far better than nothing.

Best,
Grady

[speedingbullitt]

Considering the cost of piston/cylinder sets, I was thinking of a 3.0 mfi engine build. I understand mfi pumps can be modified to new cam profiles. Is this correct. Can new cams be made that can take the MFI drive pulley? Is there a difference to what pump should be used for a 3.0 MFI build?? Early or Late......Love that MFI!!! Cool nostalgia!!

Thanks for everone input!!

Steve

[Grady Clay]

Steve,

Yes, Sherman is undertaking the 3.0+ MFI process and can chime in here. Many have done it. Talk to the pump builders.

Jim, WOW. Looks great!
The throttle bodies look great. The cross shaft looks great. Are those original “S” stacks? Is that new cold start hose with OEM clamps?

The only flaw I see is the air filter clips on the stacks should be gold iridite cad and not chrome. Aah trivia.

Best,
Grady

[Jim Richards]

Grady, the stacks are 72-73 T stacks bored out to S dimensions by Eurometrix. All the hardware has been refurbished and replated. The hose and fittings looks the same as what's on my original E stacks, and you're right, the air filter clips don't have the correct finish.