Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[Gunter]

Originally Posted by JBO

I've asked this before with no answer - I was in Wal Mart again this weekwnd, and they carry a Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40 that the package states is SL (not SM). Looking at the packages, including the reintroduced formula 15-50, they were all SM, SL except for the 10-40 (and the 5-40 Mobil 1 diesel truck oil, which was also SL). So I ask again, is this Mobil 1 SL 10-40 or the SL 5-40 acceptable? The 10-40 is $23 for a 5 qt jug. The 5-40 comes in 4 qt jugs for $21, so it is a little more expensive, but both are much cheaper than V-Twin at $8.25/qt.

Why not contact Mobil and ask them about ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorus ppm) in those particular oils and then post the answers here?

[JBO]

Gunter - tried that, but they would'nt provide specifics, such as 1,200 PPM of zinc, and would only say that the high mileage formula and their new 15-50 (which is SM/SL) contains higher levels of ZDDP than their other formulations. My presumption is that the 10-40 high mileage contains more than the 15-50, as it is SL, and not SM/SL rated. I believe this is a logical presumption, but is not based on actual data.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by JBO

I've asked this before with no answer - I was in Wal Mart again this weekwnd, and they carry a Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40 that the package states is SL (not SM). Looking at the packages, including the reintroduced formula 15-50, they were all SM, SL except for the 10-40 (and the 5-40 Mobil 1 diesel truck oil, which was also SL). So I ask again, is this Mobil 1 SL 10-40 or the SL 5-40 acceptable? The 10-40 is $23 for a 5 qt jug. The 5-40 comes in 4 qt jugs for $21, so it is a little more expensive, but both are much cheaper than V-Twin at $8.25/qt.

JBO:

FWIW,....5w-40 and 10w-40 oils are too thin for air-cooled engines unless its at or below freezing and you wish to drive the car.

Those products are just fine for water-cooled engines that have different clearances.

JMHO, so YMMV.

[cnavarro]

I finally located the results from our field testing back in '06. The samples for the V-Twin M1 and Amsoil are nowhere to be found, nor the results. I can't remember what I did with them. If memory serves me correct, the UOAs were good, in line with the Brad Penn.

For what I found, here are the UOAs. http://www.lnengineering.com/2006crosscountry.pdf

The Brad Penn was the clear winner in field testing, with the lowest wear metal counts between GTX, RP, and the Brad Penn. Comparing the best and worst , the Brad Penn used up ~6% of it's ZDDP versus ~23% for the GTX. The Brad Penn and RP came through in range for its viscosity grade whereas the GTX came in out of specification, too thin.

I just put 2400mi on the Brad Penn 20w50 over the weekend driving to Rennsport and Back, and the last 1200+ mi were non-stop, just stopping for fill ups ever 375-400 mi, holding well over 3,000 rpm (in 5th) most of the time. I ordered more sampling bottles today and will post the results as soon as I have them.

[Por_sha911]

My head is spinning. I've followed along all 383 posts.
Please allow me to review my understanding of my spirited street-driven 3.2 that sees about 5000 miles a year:
-I currently have GTX 20/50 in the car - Bad
-I added a bottle of GM EOS - Better
-I need to change at 3000 miles because the oil will break down too quickly.
-Since I do not want to use a synthetic oil, Castrol High Mileage 20/50 is an acceptable (not preferable) option but I should still add the EOS to keep the ZDDP up. My other options are Brad Penn or Royal Purple 20/50 (do they still require an additive?).
How am I doing so far? HELP.
p.s. Who would have ever thought that the "Porsche Tax" would hit a plain old air-cooled oil change?

[cnavarro]

I would lump the high mileage GTX as just as poor as a performer as the normal 20w50.

You do not need EOS if you use Brad Penn, Swepco, Royal Purple, M1 V-Twin, Amsoil Harley, or any of the other boutique oils previously discussed.

[oliver88]

http://sterkel.org/avanti/documents/HowMuchAdditive.pdf

Take a look at the NAPA Universal 15w40 if you're craving Zinc and Phos....

[Por_sha911]

OK. I think I'm starting to understand. Another question: the wife drives an `85 380SL about 5-6k per year. Mostly local and it doesn't get to operating temp enough. I know that means quicker changes but what about oil choices and ZDDP levels?

[old man neri]

Alright, someone humour me. If you had to choose one of these synthetics, which would it be?

link


Also, if in the car right now there is M1, should I switch to a better dino oil or do I have to keep with a synthetic?

-matt

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by old man neri

Alright, someone humour me. If you had to choose one of these synthetics, which would it be?

link


Also, if in the car right now there is M1, should I switch to a better dino oil or do I have to keep with a synthetic?

-matt

Matt,

None of the oils shown are SM or CJ-4 so I would think they are all ok. Pick the weight/type you like. It would appear that ELF EXCELLIUM 5W50 is recommened for P-cars so I would choose that.

As an aside, I noticed that my current pro mechanic has gone to Elf products for his customers.

[donstevens]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

For what I found, here are the UOAs. http://www.lnengineering.com/2006crosscountry.pdf

I just put 2400mi on the Brad Penn 20w50 over the weekend driving to Rennsport and Back, and the last 1200+ mi were non-stop, just stopping for fill ups ever 375-400 mi, holding well over 3,000 rpm (in 5th) most of the time. I ordered more sampling bottles today and will post the results as soon as I have them.

Charles,

It was a pleasure to meet you last Saturday. As I mentioned, your contribution to this community is invaluable to the community. Rennsport was an unbeliveable event for Porsche files like us. I was numb with "Porsche guy sensory overload".

I predict your UOA results on your current batch of oil will be outstanding. Why? 2400 miles, at essentailly constant 3000 rpm, in a 10 quart dry sump system is the easiest duty anyone could put on an oil. Cruise load is light, the temperature of combustion is essentially constant and in the ideal range, and at 3000 rpm the oil is flowing at very high volume. this means that new oil is contantly replenished at critical areas like cam lobes, main bearings, piston rings and valve seals. That 2400 mile cruise is probably equivalent to 500 city miles as far as stress on the oil. Keep that in mind when you study the results.

Por_sha911 - Your comment "GTX 20/50 - Bad". Not neccesarily. GTX20/50 has proven to be a reliable product in 3000 mile drain interval applications for years. No need to worry with 3000 mile change intervals.

Also on the "85 380SL about 5-6k per year". The Higher ZDDP leavels will help this engine marginally. In addition to high ZDDP, you want a quality synthetic with a high TBN for that application. Why? Synthetics lubricate better when cold and the high TBN will help neutralize the negative effects of the short trips and improper warm up.

Don

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by donstevens

Charles,

It was a pleasure to meet you last Saturday. As I mentioned, your contribution to this community is invaluable to the community. Rennsport was an unbeliveable event for Porsche files like us. I was numb with "Porsche guy sensory overload".

I predict your UOA results on your current batch of oil will be outstanding. Why? 2400 miles, at essentailly constant 3000 rpm, in a 10 quart dry sump system is the easiest duty anyone could put on an oil. Cruise load is light, the temperature of combustion is essentially constant and in the ideal range, and at 3000 rpm the oil is flowing at very high volume. this means that new oil is contantly replenished at critical areas like cam lobes, main bearings, piston rings and valve seals. That 2400 mile cruise is probably equivalent to 500 city miles as far as stress on the oil. Keep that in mind when you study the results.
Don

It was great to meet you too and also thanks to everyone else off the forums who stopped by. By the end of the day my throat was very sore - I don't think I've ever talked so much in a day!

The UOA for the Brad Penn should be comparable to the previous UOA with Valvoline Racing NSL, as all those miles were highway too, as my 911 never sees city driving or traffic. That's why I really wanted to get the Brad Penn in there, as the driving should be pretty comparable and I could get results sooner than later, as I wouldn't probably get another chance to put that many miles until late spring. That said, I am a very aggressive driver - i.e. downshifts to third to pass are fairly regular and I got quite a few "why did you do that" from my wife along the way. Good point regardless.

[donstevens]

"why did you do that?"..............

That is a wife's job when her husband is driving. Regardless of how conservative you are.

Don

[delaneyd]

I am hearing alot of support for Brad Penn Oil , but when checking the website I found that this oil is semi-synthetic. Does that mean it will semi-leak in my 83SC that is all original and doesn't leak a drop now ?

[donstevens]

Originally Posted by delaneyd

Does that mean it will semi-leak in my 83SC that is all original and doesn't leak a drop now ?

Semi-Leak = Funny.

If it does not leak now (amazing for an 83SC) it will most likely not leak on BP.

Don

[cnavarro]

The 10w30 and 20w50 are 10% group III syn, so the Brad Penn shouldn't cause any leaks. The 0w30 is the only Brad Penn that is 30-40% group IV syn.

[84_Carrera]

Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport

JBO:

FWIW,....5w-40 and 10w-40 oils are too thin for air-cooled engines unless its at or below freezing and you wish to drive the car.

Those products are just fine for water-cooled engines that have different clearances.

JMHO, so YMMV.

Steve, you know I trust your judgment a LOT, so take this question / critique of this statement with a grain of salt...

I have been following the chart in my '84's manual as far as oil weight / time of year (temps) to use since purchasing. I use 10W-40 when the frost starts / temps are below 60 deg. F, and 20W-50 otherwise.

Here is said chart:

http://www.sinclairmfg.com/fred/porsche/84_911_oil_grade.pdf

My oil pressures are the same at 20W-50 as they are with 10W-40 (during colder temps). My oil temps are slightly higher (about a needle-widths' worth), recent sender change (though same results as last winter).

I am concerned with too-thick 20W-50 winter startups and cold-oil flow, as I typically warm for about 30 seconds before taking off (<3k rpms until at temp).

Your thoughts welcome, thank you!

[84_Carrera]

...and forgive my own follow-up...

I have BP 20W-50 on the shelf for the spring's first oil change, assuming I stay with a lighter oil for winter use, suggestions for a 10W-40 / 15W-40? Go to the Swepco for that? Would prefer something local pickup, and something a little less expensive too if possible. Thx.

[dan79brooklyn]

I am putting in Mobil 1 MT 10-40 (motorcycle oil) Full synthetic for the winter. Might switch to the Brad Penn 20-50 for summer or just run the Mobil 1 all year.
Charles posted earlier that the motorcycle oil is OK.
I am currently running Castrol GTX with a bottle of STP blue. The Castrol is from the Previous owner and I decided to add the STP after reading this thread.

[Por_sha911]

Well shoot, as if I don't have enough to be Obsessive/Compulsive about...
I just came back from shopping at my local FLAPS. I found Royal Purple High Performance but they only have 15/40. I also found Kendall GT-1 20/50. Both of these have a SL rating. I seem to remember someone saying Kendall is the good stuff (like Brad Penn). Will the Kendall work?