Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[RWebb]

easier to just buy a quality oil with ZDDP in it

also, maybe Mike can speak to whether ZDDP alters any bases

[Nick Triesch]

OMG! Everyone should know by now that we should only use Brad Penn or Valvoline VR1 in our cars. If you use other brands an air cooled 911 could only go maybe 200-300,000 miles!

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

OMG! Everyone should know by now that we should only use Brad Penn or Valvoline VR1 in our cars. If you use other brands an air cooled 911 could only go maybe 200-300,000 miles!

What he said! I've got 223+ thousand miles unopened and now that I use BPenn expect to go a brazillion miles before rebuild.
Honestly though, I agonize, like any gearhead, about what I pour down the spout.

[sp_cs]

700+ miles now on the Millers 5/40 Nano and there is a positive difference over the 300v motul 5/40. Engine feels more eager to rev throughout the range and starts quicker too even in the current uk climate. I like...

[richardlw]

What about adding ZDDPlus though?

If you know the exact oil formulation, and the exact additive formulation, you have a chance of doing something right. But no one does. How much you alter it and how much you damage other systems is up to you.

As I've posted before, and have some graphs on my report, you can have formulas that permit less wear....... but at the expense of piston deposits on the crown and ring grooves. So while you have less wear in the valve train, you end up with sticking rings and overheating. What a trade off!

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

The only differentiation I make between the two is the 15w40 is good for ambient air temps up to about 90F and the 20w50 should be used above 90F.

I wouldn't use the 20w50 for cold starts regularly under 32F.

I don't think I'll be driving my car often if at all below 32 degrees but as someone who lives in a region that sees both temperatures over 90 and under 32, I am still conflicted as to which weight to order. I'm probably just going to get 20W50 as even if it is below 32 and I'm driving the car, it will be started in a garage where it's roughly 50 degrees at its coldest.

[db_cooper]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

I don't think I'll be driving my car often if at all below 32 degrees but as someone who lives in a region that sees both temperatures over 90 and under 32, I am still conflicted as to which weight to order. I'm probably just going to get 20W50 as even if it is below 32 and I'm driving the car, it will be started in a garage where it's roughly 50 degrees at its coldest.

FerrariChat.com - FAQ: Motor Oil Articles by Dr. Ali E. Haas (AEHaas)

Dr. Haas makes some interesting observations in the above link.. 20w50 may not be the best choice, particularly in an air cooled engine that takes a while to warm up to operating temperature in colder weather.

"More confusion occurs because people think in terms of the oil thinning when it gets hot. They think this thinning with heat is the problem with motor oil. It would be more correct to think that oil thickens when it cools to room temperature and THIS is the problem. In fact this is the problem. It is said that 90 percent of engine wear occurs at startup. If we are interested in engine longevity then we should concentrate our attention at reducing engine wear at startup"

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by db_cooper

FerrariChat.com - FAQ: Motor Oil Articles by Dr. Ali E. Haas (AEHaas)

Dr. Haas makes some interesting observations in the above link.. 20w50 may not be the best choice, particularly in an air cooled engine that takes a while to warm up to operating temperature in colder weather.

"More confusion occurs because people think in terms of the oil thinning when it gets hot. They think this thinning with heat is the problem with motor oil. It would be more correct to think that oil thickens when it cools to room temperature and THIS is the problem. In fact this is the problem. It is said that 90 percent of engine wear occurs at startup. If we are interested in engine longevity then we should concentrate our attention at reducing engine wear at startup"

Well I just spend over $100 in Swepco 20W50 from Pelican Parts this morning after that post. Heh.

[db_cooper]

Mr.Bonus..save it for your hot Delaware summers

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by db_cooper

Mr.Bonus..save it for your hot Delaware summers

I don't put enough mileage on this car to justify running two different oil weights.

[Concestor0]

JEGS Oil System Heating Pads

These are fairly common on air cooled aircraft engines. I've also had them on some turbine aircraft i've flown (dry sump). They come in various sizes.

[dshepp806]

@ MRBONUS: it's not a matter of mileadge (I would say), but (moreso) the environmental (temp) circumstances of the "cold crank" that bear significance. Tis' seasonal,..NOT mileadge related. Just my nickel, for sure.

BEST!

Doyle

[dshepp806]

@Concestor0: yeap: we've seen many of contributions to this approach. A nice one,..one that works for those who have cars within those sub-32 degree worlds. I'm seriously looking at getting this. In my case (lotsa' cars) they all can't fit into the damned garage at once,...should the P-car be tagged to be the one OUTSIDE, then maybe I should grace her with such a device,..I'll bet she'll like me for it......THANKS!

DOYLE

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by dshepp806

@ MRBONUS: it's not a matter of mileadge (I would say), but (moreso) the environmental (temp) circumstances of the "cold crank" that bear significance. Tis' seasonal,..NOT mileadge related. Just my nickel, for sure.

BEST!

Doyle

I understand. I'm just trying to straddle that wide temperature variation we see in the Mid Atlantic with one oil. I don't forsee myself driving the car below 32 degrees but I may have a few days when it's near that temperature where I might take the car out and I don't want to run 15W40 just for that small handful of occasions.

Again, I'm probably worrying about very little but I was curious as to what everyone else does for that month where it gets cold but before the salt goes down on the road.

[dshepp806]

Don't know much about "salt concerns",...but DO understand your "handful of occasions" comment.

What are your high temps (and when) ?

BEST!

Doyle

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by dshepp806

Don't know much about "salt concerns",...but DO understand your "handful of occasions" comment.

What are your high temps (and when) ?

BEST!

Doyle

We hit mid 90s up here pretty frequently in July and August. I'm far more likely to drive the car then than when it's at or below freezing and if I am driving it, I'm starting the car in a garage that maintains mid 50 degree temperatures in the winter.

[dshepp806]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

We hit mid 90s up here pretty frequently in July and August. I'm far more likely to drive the car then than when it's at or below freezing and if I am driving it, I'm starting the car in a garage that maintains mid 50 degree temperatures in the winter.

Completely good to go, Sir. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Should she stay ALWAYS within the garage, then one has different ambient cold start numbers to deal with (in your favor, certainly, for 20W50 oil-I would think). Heated garages are a slam dunk, as to the question.

Since my girl "may" see a parking condition OUTSIDE this Winter, I'll opt to run the BP 15W40 and see how it goes. So far, all has been well,..great oil pressures, temps completely acceptable,..no funky leaks,......I'll stay put, for now.

You know how it is with these girls,...one makes a (seemingly) Major change in her "habits", becoming very anal at watching the results.....I think mine to be a good call, for my conditions (challenges),..designing for worst case conditions....let the oil be thinner when freezing outside,....,..so be it,....as long as I have my Z & P......I'm happy....

BEST!

Doyle

[db_cooper]

I have very good service on my 911 with 5w40 synthetic HDEO year round. Still too old school to use 0w40 like the good Doctor suggested.

[kojo911]

Are the newer model engines with hydraulic valve trains less dependent on ZDDP? Or is it necessary for other components in the engine?

thanks

[afterburn 549]

Which Newer model?
AFAIK its the wear that happens on non roller valve trains (Cams go flat) Thats the biggest deal, Thats where (wear) the Zink does its job Prevents cams from pitting wearing .